By the way, speaking of Mansion Penthouse, I did an interview for Playboy in 1989, in November edition, 1989. And there were a few—

But there's no calendar of you naked in December.

Calendar? Yeah, but there's some very professional pictures because, you know, just a feather boa draped around your bishop, that kind of thing.

Just not a porn shot, I imagine. No, no, no, no, no. Smashing Security, Episode 216: Playboy, Prison, and Digital Ploys with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley. Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security, Episode 216. My name's Graham Cluley.

And I'm Carole Theriault.

And this week, Carole, we are joined by a very special guest. He's returning to the show. It's chess champion turned activist and security ambassador for Avast. Garry Kasparov. Hello, Garry.

Hello, hello, hello. So I'm special, but already second time.

Yes, we're very honored.

Thank you for having me.

You obviously had an amazing time the first time.

I think it's just that he's got not very much else to do, to be honest, Carole, like the rest of the world.

These days, no, it's a lot to do, just no movements. So I've been desperately trying to remember the year when I moved so little around the world, and my memories bring me back to 1975.

Oh, because I mean, if people don't know who you are, Garry, and shame on them, you are— you may be too embarrassed to say this, I don't know— you're the greatest chess player who has ever lived. You are the number one.

Oh my God, you said it.

But it's true, it's true. You're better than Fischer.

Do you have a huge tattoo of a pawn on your back or something just to—

No, I don't. No, no, I don't. I have to disappoint you, so I mean, I don't believe in black magic, so chess is not voodoo.

But tell me, Garry, tell me one thing, right? You at the moment are under lockdown and you're locked up there with your family. You can't really play chess with any of them, can you? I mean, I would imagine your family never ever want to play chess with you. In fact, do you get any pleasure out of chess?

Yes, it's— you're talking about chess, you didn't mix me with a football player or basketball player or tennis player. Chess can be played online. That's why the game is so popular these days because people actually discovered and rediscovered it since you can play chess, you can learn chess, you can follow the games of other players, and it's all online. And our life is online now. And I would say to the contrary, probably since I left my professional chess in 2005, I never had so much chess in my life.

Yeah, Graham, don't offer him a game. He's gonna kick your ass.

Well, it's still a real pleasure when I see you play some of the, I think the St. Louis competitions and other things where you've come back to the board. It's really been great to watch.

Yeah, yeah, I guess I'm having fun. I'm the highest-rated amateur player in the world.

Well, let's say thanks to this week's sponsor, 1Password. Its support helps us give you this show for free. Now coming up on today's show, Graham, what do you got?

I'm going to be talking about a romance scam, albeit with a bit of a twist.

Ooh. I will have the hardcore version of romance scam. It's extortion scams.

Oh God. And I will lighten the mood by talking about digital snowstorms. All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.

Now, chums, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We're all familiar with that, aren't we? There we have right at the bottom our basic requirements: oxygen, water, food, shelter, maybe some clothes.

And Garry, what about you?

Internet.

Yeah, internet, Amazon Prime, Netflix. All those essential things that we have to have.

Toilet paper.

Yeah. Are you sure you counted them in the right order?

Yeah, toilet paper must be number one. That's what we learned at the beginning of the pandemic.

It now lands on the top of the list.

Exactly.

And then we're looking at health, employment, somewhere to live. And then we begin to get a little bit fussy, don't we, about who we snuggle up with. Love, having some sense of belonging, intimacy, someone lovely to curl up with on the sofa and play maybe a little game of chess, albeit it'd be online for you, Garry.

You're very picky, Graham.

What? I think everyone's picky, aren't they, as to who they're going to end up with. You want to find that special somebody. Well, I think many people are looking for that special someone. And in this day and age, the place that you find your partner in life is likely to be either through work or online. And guess what? We're not going to the office anymore because of this ruddy pandemic. So there's no more flirting by the photocopier. It's all happening online. That's the only place. Garry, I imagine back in your chess-playing days, your professional chess-playing days, you were a rock star. I've always wondered, are there chess groupies?

He wants to know if you got laid as a chess champ.

Don't be so crude. I'm just wondering if— Rather like there are admirers of, you know, guitarists, but are there also chess groupies who are after the grandmasters?

We never had this kind of phenomena at the same scale. They were fans, they were admirers, but there was never, you know, a hurricane of female attack on top players.

No. Well, I'm sorry about that.

He's very humble.

Maybe I'm getting old, you know, my memory betrays me. But see, we're talking about, you know, just ancient times.

Yes.

Smooth, Garry.

No mobile phones, no internet. You remember, I became chess world champion at age 22 in 1985. In 1985, it was just the beginning of CNN era.

All they had was Polaroids. I mean, you know.

And we didn't have mobile phones and I bet you probably I had one of the first private fax machines in the Soviet Union.

Right.

Yeah. And I also remember in 1988, I bought a laptop. My first laptop was a Compaq.

Yes, yes, yes.

It was about 5 kilos and $5,000. And it had a memory that, yeah, that's brutal, 20 megabytes.

Luxury.

Luxury.

No, it's absolute luxury. And then you can add extra 20, and I was so proud. So that's the best thing your money could buy in 1988. You tell this story to your kids now, I'm telling it to my 4-year-old daughter, she says, "20 what? 20 what?"

"20 what?" This is why all the semi-boomers have back problems because we had to carry around these ginormous batteries everywhere.

And you remember the first mobile phones?

Oh, yes.

Oh, I do. My dad—

You killed someone. Well, those of us who are lucky enough to be able to work from home, we're going to probably be working from home for some time yet. Which means if there is an unfortunate hole in your personal life which you want to fill, there's a good chance you'll be doing it online. Which brings me to my story this week. The BBC have spoken not to the victim of an internet romance scam, but the scammer himself. They have spoken to a chap who they are calling Jamie. That's not his real name. He's in his 20s, and the last few years he's been doing very nicely, thank you, scamming women. And there is a particular type of woman who he is targeting. He says he targets women who are a lot older than him and are looking for love. And he does this, unsurprisingly perhaps, he makes the initial contact via dating apps. And because he's young and confident, he's one of that very small minority of dating app users who actually uses his own photograph, and a fairly current photograph at that. So he doesn't use a model's photograph. He doesn't put up a picture of Fabio. It's actually his real photograph, which he puts up.

Mm. And I'm not surprised by that.

Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, attractive young people around these days, I heard. And he says he would go looking for older women, quote, "who have the look of desperation about them," he said.

Oh, God.

Isn't that horrible?

What a— that's a twist of the knife. So, a widow, something like that?

Well, I'm sure that would probably ring his bell. He also says he seeks out profiles that say things like, "I just want happiness." Whereas, of course, that's the last thing most people want on a dating app, I suspect. Well, no, they do want happiness, but it may not be the first thing that they lead off with. But it's phrases like that which actually draw him. And his initial outreach, he sends a woman a message on the dating app and he's very cool. He's relaxed. You know, he's not very pushy. But if they reply, even though he's 30 years younger or more, he knows they're interested just from the photographs. And he thinks, ah, maybe I've got them hooked.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I have a friend who's moved to the countryside recently, a single gentleman around the age of about 50, and recently went through a medical situation, you know, had a little operation.

All right.

And basically about 6 women, some married, some not, between the ages of 60 and 85 are knocking on his door regularly to offer him Beef Wellington and pancakes on Pancake Tuesday last week. And he's inundated with older women looking for attention.

Can I say, I'm in my early 50s, and I went to the hospital earlier this week. I've had no one—

He found you.

I've had no one knocking on my door offering me Beef Wellington.

Did you say Beef Wellington?

Yes!

Fancy schmancy stuff.

Rare?

Yes, rare! With a duxelles and everything.

It's not a gumboot. Yeah, very nice.

I'm just saying, maybe older gentlemen need to look after their women better. All right, guys.

Well, this particular— I'm gonna have to learn a trick from him. Yeah, anyway, so he knows that you've got Garry drooling over the Beef Wellington now.

Move to the Cotswolds. Apparently that's where it's all happening.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of rare, you know, just, you know, I'd rather have, you know, medium, medium, sometimes I'm sure it was well done. You know, just of these cuisine preferences.

Well, over the weeks and months, this chap Jamie, he would tell them everything, he says, that they wanted to hear. He was almost an expert at determining what was missing from their life, and he would tell them what they wanted to hear, use the words they— you know, he wouldn't be doing something coarse. He'd give them exactly what they wanted until they had fallen utterly and completely head over heels in love with him. So he would say things to them like, oh, I'd love to have a kid with you, or I bet you're great at this, or, you know, let's—

Oh, so these women are in his age group? They're not older?

Oh no, they are older, apparently. They are older, yes.

Well, older like 30s, because if they're having kids—

Well, I think—

He's not saying to them, I wish we could have a kid, but, you know, menopause.

That tends to be a bit of a passion killer to mention that to a woman.

No, I wish we had, or I do wish we would have.

Yes, exactly. Yes. I'm sure maybe he's flattering them, saying, "Oh, you can't possibly be 61." What?

You're 79?

Yes, exactly. Anyway, and of course, he says, "I'm so sorry. Oh, such a shame, this lockdown we're under," because UK's under lockdown. You know, "We can't meet up until that's all over." And it was only after he had messaged them for many, many months. And he thought that they were entirely hooked, that he revealed his big secret to them. Do you know what his big secret was?

I'm listening, you know. I'm shivering already with expectations.

His secret was he was in jail.

Uh-huh.

Jamie would tell them that he was in prison. And you know what?

He was in prison, or he still is?

He actually was in prison.

Oof.

He had smuggled a phone into the prison from where he was doing all these romance scamming.

Okay, I have a question.

Yes.

Where's the scam?

Yeah. Where is the beef?

'Cause there's no scam. He says, "I'm in jail. You're kinda yummy."

Entertain me, 'cause I'm kinda bored in my 6x8 cell." So what he would do is he would say that he was in prison for driving offences. And that's the bit which was a slight fib, 'cause in fact— Ah. He was in for violent crime. And what he would do is he would convince them because they were having a relationship and, "I'm going to be coming out," and all the rest of it, or, "I need a bit of money, you know, I haven't got any money. Can you send me some money?" And he was regularly getting hundreds of pounds every week. And there was one woman who he managed to scam out of over £10,000.

Where was he getting his money? In his jail bank account?

Well, you can still have a bank account if you're in jail. Can you? Yes. Anyone can have a bank account and you can still receive money into it. He said that female lawyers were some of the best people to target because they not only had a well-paid job and disposable income, but they might also be prepared maybe to give them a little bit of legal advice. So, you know, they felt they were helping.

Oh my God. I know.

And he knows how to ask professional questions just to give the impression that he is really behind the bars. And yeah.

Well, yes. Unlike most romance scammers, he can prove, yes, this really is me. So he could take photographs anytime. Here I am working out, you know, up against—

Is he saying he's in love with them and stuff this? Is he doing, you're the only one for me?

Of course. That's what women want to hear, right?

He doesn't need to do that. If he just needs a bit of dinner and some advice, it turns out all you gotta do is, you know—

Yeah, well, this is a nice little sideline, isn't it? Because he isn't able to go and do his regular job of duffing up people or whatever it is, or robbing banks. So he's scamming people online. He apparently, according to his discussion with the BBC, he's now decided that this is wrong. And he wants to warn other people about how this can work and how it operates.

So you said he decided it was wrong. And so that's two explanations. One is he made enough money. Yeah. And, you know, he just all of a sudden, you know, he's conscious now, has woken up.

Yeah, he's doing interviews, so he's looking for a bit of—

Or maybe he's been found out.

Maybe doing interviews is another form of scam.

I want to know how the BBC journalist found out about him. I want to know if he was scamming the BBC journalist and she sort of twigged.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe she was one of the victims, yes.

Or the BBC lawyer, who was like, "Go after him." But you know, in many ways, someone in prison would make the ideal attentive boyfriend, wouldn't they? Because they're locked up. They're locked up for 23 hours a day.

Well, if they have a mobile phone shoved up their ass.

Yes, if they've smuggled it. Oh, Carole.

Wherever they can. Keeping the mobile phone. But some of those Nokias are very small these days, aren't they? But it's perfect. So he can be really attentive. It's like a fantastic boyfriend. It's not like you have to worry that he's going around seeing other women.

Yeah. Or he's in too many meetings.

Right. You know, so in some ways it's true. For a remote boyfriend under lockdown, it could be perfect. So Jamie, here's Jamie's advice. He says, watch out for people who are a lot younger or better looking than you.

Oh, he's turned a corner now.

Yes. He's turned a corner. Okay, let me listen to Jamie's advice. Watch out for people who ask you for money.

Yeah.

Especially if you've never met them in person.

Right.

And you can hear— Check. You can hear more about this on BBC Radio 4's File on 4, and I'll put a link in the show notes so you can check that out.

That's a great show though.

It is a good show. It is a good show. Now, apparently, according to researchers, the most dangerous dating apps in the UK, the ones with the most crime reports, are Tinder, Plenty of Fish, and Grindr.

The biggest.

Yeah. Carole, you've been very happily married for some years now.

Yep.

Ever since you adopted the yeti at Cotswold Safari Park. But do you think you would use a dating app?

Well, I think now if I've suddenly become single—

If the wookie went back to the herd?

Yes.

You do?

Yes.

Yes!

Of course. How else? What, down at Sainsbury's?

Yes.

You know, between the yoghurt and the, yeah.

You'd be on it? Garry, you're married. But if you were on the lookout for love, do you think your celebrity would be a hindrance? Do you think— would you be comfortable putting your picture up?

I've been married for almost 16 years now.

Congratulations.

And I'm very, very happy here. So when I—

I wasn't testing you. I wasn't.

It was just a trap, Garry. It was my, you know, it was my third attempt, the successful one.

So I got married twice before.

So I had enough in my life and actually never needed any form of champs to get into relations.

But if you were a younger single chess grandmaster, would you worry that IBM, for instance, might make a supercomputer designed to woo you? You know, not so much Deep Blue as Deep Garry.

The problem is when I was young, as we discussed, you know, a few minutes ago, so we didn't have supercomputers, we didn't have internet. So you're just, you're pushing me just to the ropes, you know, just to imagine the situation when I was young, unmarried, you know, full of sexual energy. I'm still a female.

Yeah, Piers Morgan, why don't you go back in your box?

And I have all these modern tools. The answer is, I don't know. I mean, it's quite an exercise actually in my mind to connect these different times.

I'm very sorry. I'm very sorry that Graham is pushing you. These are inappropriate questions.

Oh.

Just saying.

Right. If your continued relationship with someone depends on you sending them money, that's another telltale sign. To be honest, I've been in a lot of relationships where that's definitely a warning sign. If the pictures look particularly professional and/or glamorous, they may have been stolen. Have you ever had a glamorous photo shoot, either of you?

Of course.

Yeah.

Look, you know, you're asking me, so I had so many photo sessions in my life, so I can have an unlimited stock of supply.

But there's no calendar of you naked in December.

Oh yeah, but they sound very professional pictures because you mentioned IBM and the match, match to match, I played against IBM supercomputers. I believe there were a couple of promo pictures, whether in real life or online, that had me depicted in a very attractive form.

A feather boa draped around your bishop, that kind of thing. Not a porn shot, I imagine.

No, no, no, no, no. Look, they were — look, it was actually — it was the, 1997, the cover of Newsweek. There you go, The Brain's Last Stand. Yeah, cover of Newsweek.

That's very cool.

I hope it's glamorous enough.

It is glamorous. Or Penthouse.

Yeah.

No, by the way, speaking about — you mentioned Penthouse. I did an interview with Playboy in 1989, in November, November, November edition, 1989. And there were a few — but as you know, typically black and white pictures. Yeah, but I was just —

Classy, classy.

And if I remember, you know, I was pictured, you know, by just sitting there in the middle of the summer and it was just, you know, the shirt.

I'm going to look for this now.

It's more likely — I'm fine. It actually was on the shirt.

Oh, but they didn't get you in a Maróczy bind or anything like that?

No, no, no.

No knights on the rim.

Yeah, it's 1989. What is that? I'm making a nerdy chess joke, just to show Carole Theriault.

I didn't know what was going on.

Playboy interviews are serious. It was a long, serious interview. And actually, I got in trouble not because of my affiliation with Playboy magazine, but rather about the content of the interview that was not politically acceptable by Soviet authorities.

Did you ever go to the mansion? Garry? No, I didn't know. It was just in Baku.

He didn't have to do that.

It's a Playboy interview. It was quite a serious challenge. And they had a very professional journalist, political journalist, Rudy Chelminsky, flying into my summer camp near Baku, Azerbaijan. And we had this long, long, long conversation, plus a few other conversations when he met me at the tournaments in Europe.

Incredible. It's even available in Braille. You can get Playboy.

In Braille? Okay, fine. Yeah. No, you really can. You can get it in Braille.

I don't need— Right. Anyway, we've probably talked enough about this. So, Garry, I've talked about romance scams. I've tried to keep it fairly clean. You now tell us the more sordid side of things with sextortion scams.

It's more sordid. It's far more primitive. You know, it doesn't require all these techniques of preparation of seducing by writing letters. And it's a very straight shot. And last January, Avast announced that they had blocked over half a million sextortion attempts in the month of January. Half a million. So in a month, in the month of January 2021, which is good. We've been talking about it. People are just locked in and the use of Zoom and all the video apps at home now jumped over the roof. And naturally, people could be exposed either intentionally or sometimes unintentionally, and they can be caught on camera. And most of these attacks target, of course, English-speaking users in the US and the UK. And it's a very, very simple technology.

So what happens? What happens in a sextortion attack?

You just receive an email. You just receive an email, an anonymous sender tells you that he or she, they had you on video. So they managed to hack into your account, into the Zoom conversation, into whatever, and they have it. And unless you pay them, typically in bitcoin, they will release it. They will send it to your loved ones or to your workplace. Believe it or not, it works.

So it has to be that they have video or that you think they have video of you doing something.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I said. Email could say, okay, we have a recorded sexual act or access to sensitive sexual information. And it will end up with the terrible reputation damage unless an amount to be paid in bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency to be delivered at certain address. If you want to prevent it.

And they're taking advantage of people's embarrassment of that? Either because they're having an affair or because whatever, whatever.

I think most of them are just simply, you know, that it's a quantity game. They just send it around, just believing, and unfortunately, rightly so, that someone could take the bait.

Yeah, because in many of these cases, it's people's fear because of, for instance, they've been going to pornography sites to keep themselves entertained or whatever over lockdown. So they may have enjoyed themselves in front of their webcam. So that's their fear is, well, potentially they might have seen something because I don't have a webcam cover or whatever. And the person sending the email probably doesn't have anything at all, but they're just trying to frighten you. And if there's a small percentage of people who pay up, that will be enough.

Yeah, but don't forget, this is the more sophisticated version of that. So when the email reveals that a Trojan was installed on the recipient's machine two months ago, and because of this device, they recorded all the potential victim's actions with the microphone and webcam, and they exfiltrated all data from the devices.

And Avast are seeing a rise in sexploitation scams.

I apologise as well. Okay. So I'm just going to very quickly sum up some other things to watch out for according to the authorities.

It's skyrocketing, skyrocketing now.

If someone asks you a lot of personal questions about yourself, but they aren't interested in telling you much about themselves, which is something I can relate to. A relationship's never gonna work if she keeps on yabbering on about herself rather than me talking about myself.

Because people are bored at home and they're lonely and they're—

Also, it's not just people at home, you know, this is— many people had some sensitive conversations when they were at work. I mean, let's acknowledge that.

That's 99% of conversation.

But the security in offices was of a different type. The firewalls and all the investments made by the corporations to protect working systems. Now, people used to certain kind of protocol and all of a sudden they're at home where protection is inadequate, but it's very difficult for them to shift just from one type of arrangements to another. And they continue with the same complacency, lack of vigilance.

I remember once, Graham, you didn't ask me how I was for 3 months. Literally. Just saying.

And that's why they got panicked when they just recognize, oh, somebody used my complacency, my inability to adjust to a new situation, and I'll be exposed.

Do you think people should just have sex with, you know, make sure all their equipment's in a Faraday cage before they get, so they don't get sexploited?

I don't know. I just think they definitely have to be very cautious with their online engagements. And also, don't forget, people now are looking for all sorts of conveniences. And you have so many apps in your home. Very often, it's a smart home. And all you need is just one weak link, one weak link in the whole network that will allow a hacker to get in. That's a very sophisticated form of hacking. We're talking about a very simple psychological attack because 99% of these attacks, they're not substantiated by real action. It's simple psychological, it's more like a poker, it's a bluff. Oh yeah, let's open your cards, ah no, no, no, I'd rather pay, I don't want to see your cards.

And the psychological attack can be very sophisticated because, for instance, I've seen sextortion attacks where they'll claim they have footage of you and as if it were proof, they say, and we know one of your passwords and they will quote a password which has previously been breached. For instance, when LinkedIn got hacked, they will mention that in the email. And you think, how can they possibly know my password? They must have everything else which they claim to have as well.

So would your advice then be to say if someone comes to you and says that, you say, prove it, prove it, prove it, prove it, or do you say don't answer the email at all, ignore it and it'll go away?

I think it's just the advice is you should stay calm. So because in reality, it's the attacker does not actually own any recordings and they're using the social engineering techniques to scare and shame you into paying. Phishing. Yeah, they can even show you old leaked passwords to make this message more credible. But these leaked passwords, we all know they're sold on the dark web and attackers could, more sophisticated attackers, they can use them for the campaign to raise your concerns. So, but even if the attacker has included all the leaked passwords of yours, okay, ignore them, change your password to a much longer, complex version. If you haven't done so already.

Yeah, I think that's the best advice too. Yeah.

Good stuff. Carole, that slurp of tea tells me that we should move on.

That's my, it's my bad.

Well, we're gonna talk digital snowstorms.

Yeah, my bad.

Right.

So weather, the weather recently, bit weird.

Oh, yeah.

Don't tell Texans about it. I just gotta confess.

Well, exactly. The biggest weather freakout recently was the snowstorm in Texas, right, where more than 4 million people across Texas lost power. This was last Monday. Millions of people living in the energy capital of the world, self-proclaimed, had no electricity during the storm. With freezing cold temperatures. Lowest income houses, of course, were hit hardest, because they obviously couldn't just jump on a plane to Mexico à la Ted Cruz, could they?

No.

Now Politico's Renuka Rayasam wrote, in Austin, my father-in-law spent hours desperately searching for a place to stay and a way to get there before making it safely to a hotel with the help of a heroic Uber driver. Friends texted me stories about putting on their clothes and huddling under covers with their kids, braving icy roads to get to a relatives' house where the lights were still on.

It's absolutely astonishing, isn't it? I mean, it's hard for us to comprehend if we don't live there.

It happened in Canada for 3 weeks where my parents lived.

Yeah, you're kind of used to it, aren't you? You probably have plows and you're prepared for that sort of weather.

And, you know, ice de-icer for the cars, right?

In Texas, it's going to hit them pretty hard if something like that happens. Yeah.

Now, the reason this was a big problem is because Texas is on an independent electricity grid, and it is the only state that managed its power completely independently from the rest of the U.S. And fascinatingly, I thought this was fascinating at least, apparently this grid was created like a century ago. So it's like a long-standing kind of, we take care of our own energy. The costs are plain to see when things don't go to plan, right? So they couldn't draw power from other states, right? And they were forced to switch off the power for whole swathes of people because otherwise permanent damage was going to happen to their grid. And apparently Texas doesn't require energy producers to prepare for cold weather scenarios. So like Georgia, for example, requires operators to maintain energy reserves almost double of what Texas requires. And of course, they're largely free from any federal oversight, right? So that means when energy is plentiful, they can offer it really cheap. But the problem is, is when it ain't plentiful, the prices go up and people— so basically the price is around $50 per megawatt per hour.

Prices have been soaring. That's just, yeah, because it's automatic, by the way, it's automatic. They made automatic adjustments. That's everything computerized.

Yeah.

It's crazy. Exactly. So it started at the beginning of the storm before the storm hit, it was $50 per megawatt per hour, but it went up. Texas Public Utility Commission moved that cap on wholesale rates at $9,000 per megawatt per hour on Wednesday. So people got hit with, I think the highest one I saw was $17,000. It's insane.

Insane bills. Absolutely. Absolutely insane.

Yes, insane.

This is purely in an attempt to control the demand for electricity. The price soared and some people would be turning things off.

It's a free market. It's a completely free market. And so demand soared and so the prices just automatically went up. And there was a cap at $9,000, which regularly it was $50. It's insane. So we can all agree this is another total shit snow show for Texas. So what do you do in a national emergency like this, right? Cue the fake news crew, okay? Because they're gonna save us all. So across—

Fake news.

Well, I'm really interested in your views on this one because I'm really torn, okay? So across social media platforms— Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok— people started posting videos and comments about the snow in Texas being weird. Not melting as it should, and therefore, get this, must be engineered by powerful, suspicious persons or institutions.

It's the Chinese, isn't it? It's the Chinese.

No, no, no. Bill Gates, it turns out.

Oh, Bill Gates.

Yeah, but people have died. That's not fake. People died. Many were frozen. I mean, lives have been broken. It was a disaster beyond imagination for Texas. They didn't have such harsh winter for decades.

Yep.

How can this happen in such a developed country? It's just—

So we're going to talk about this. So I'm just going to set the scenario and ask you guys questions on this. Okay. So one TikToker, right, that went up, got more than 250,000 views. And she has a vid showing a woman attempting to melt a snowball with a hairdryer, but it doesn't melt. In other words, the fact that snow turns into vapor, not water, when heated, you know, sublimation, is being called a conspiracy from the powerful alphas.

Oh, so the snow was disappearing when she attacked with the hair dryer?

No, no, but she was saying, look, there's no water, there's no puddle. And another video posted on Twitter, woman trying to melt a snowball with a lighter, but to no avail. And you can hear her say, "To our government and Bill Gates, thank you Bill Gates for trying to tell us this is the real fucking snow."

Oh my goodness.

Oh, is she Texan?

I don't know. The lighter left a little black mark on it because it was burning all the crap in the lighter. And of course, that was, you know, particles, metal particles. Anyway, this is not the first time that such fake snow allegations were blabbed about in the press, right, in this media. So back in 2014, when snow blanketed Atlanta, Georgia, the same thing happened. And this is — I went into Snopes, right? In 2014, the fake snow bandwagon included claims that snow was not natural was instead some artificial substance composed of chemicals or plastic, many of those claims somehow connecting to the phenomenon of existence of chemtrails. Remember chemtrails? There was all the rage.

Carole, what have

Yeah, well, there you go. Okay, so that's the scenario we've got here. Okay, so this is where I would love to ask you guys like an agree/disagree. Okay, so I'm gonna make a statement and you tell me whether you think this is true or not true.

you got for

So few, if any, people posting this stuff believe that snow is fake. Do you agree or disagree?

us this week?

Are you saying only a few people, only a few nutters?

Okay, no. Okay, so I'm saying nobody who, yeah, nobody who's putting this out there actually believes that snow is fake. Do you agree with that statement or disagree?

Oh, the people are saying it, but you think they don't actually believe it?

Oh, I'm just saying that as a statement.

Oh no, I think people probably believe this.

I agree, I agree, I agree. I think it's just, some of them just, you know, they have malicious intent and they, of course, doing it out of some political calculations on God knows what. But unfortunately, my experience tells me people believe all sorts of shit. It's this 70% to 30% split. It's fake news versus real news. People are more attracted to fake news, and it's 70% because it's more sensational. People are looking for internet to learn something they never heard and when you come up with this kind of nonsense, oh, that's interesting. It's something about our mentality, so the way our mind's working and how something that is catching our eye, oh, what is this? Something sensational. Oh, snow, God knows, you know, snow, you know, if you live in just in north of the States, you know, it's natural, it's every winter. But digital snowstorm or the fake snowstorm coming out of Bill Gates or, you know, another kind of QAnon conspiracy theory. That's fantastic. So that's, it's very unfortunate, but the fake news on the internet, they just, you know, they're making waves and they are catching.

I watched an old movie on Netflix the other day. I watched, do you remember Oliver Stone's JFK? Came out probably about 1992 with Kevin Costner. And it was a really enjoyable movie. I loved it 30-odd years ago. And I watched it again just the other night and I was watching it and I was thinking, well, it's a great movie. But I also think there's a whole load of cobblers in here.

But you know, this is 1992 about the events in 1963. And you think now at the time where you can check everything, it's not going to happen. It's actually getting worse. It's getting worse because people are just overloaded with all this news and they always stick to some, you know, one or two trusted quote-unquote sources.

See, I was looking at this and I was who benefits from this? Who benefits really? And the two that I came up with were obviously the people that spew it out, right? And I'm of the view that most of them that are spewing it out are just doing it for shits and giggles.

I don't think so.

They're at home, they're just thinking, this is fun. I know this is— and I think they're doing it for digital influence because a lot of the shares that I saw weren't people saying, oh my God, listen to this, can't believe it. It was more like, look at these dumbasses in Texas that think snow is fake, right? So I think it's some kind of almost like a meme that's going around.

I think people are doing it because they get a sense of belonging. Even though it's nonsense, they believe it, and they feel more validated because they're inside the club. Do you really believe this?

About snow? Yeah.

No, I don't believe it.

No, no, but—

Well, do you? I believe that they believe it. Ah! And they get a benefit out of believing it because they think they know what's really going on, and that makes them feel good.

Who really gets away with this are the Texas fat cats, right? Who were making all the press when it came to the snowstorm. And now people are— when I was going through articles in quite reputable papers about the story, I thought they would precede the story with saying, hey, this is what happened in Texas, and this is, you know, who looks likely to be blamed, and isn't this outrageous? And oh, by the way, this is happening the way I covered it. Instead, they're just taking over the story. So it's just saying people in Texas suffered a snowstorm. Oh, and look, people are making fake snow stuff. So it's taking the headlines away from those that are responsible for this issue.

But who's responsible for that?

Who do you think, Garry? Come on, you're smart. You're a smart guy.

You're a smart guy. I know the story about Texas and about the greed. And Texas always wanted to be unique, the Lone Star State. But they had abundance of energy. It's just you can hardly blame them. And the problem is both old and new sources of electricity failed, whether it's old traditional gas or wind. And by the leading states in the amount of energy provided by wind. That's a fair point. Nearly a quarter. Or she lives in Wyoming or But both sources were not weatherized. God knows where, so. And of course, you know, the

I think, no, but to your point, I think they have weather information for probably the last 100 years. And if they went through it, they could probably go, "You know what?

lighter— the soot—

We seem to get some crazy-ass snowstorm every decade or so. We probably should think about that."

You remember there was the Fukushima nuclear reactor? Yes. Yeah. 2011.

2011?

I think 2011, yes, or 2010, 2011. Now, imagine 5 years early, you could have a group of leading scientists addressing Japanese government saying, you know what, we think there's a 10% chance that the reactor could blow up because it was built in 1971 and the security is inadequate. Now, if you invest $50 billion now, you can avoid potential loss of $1 trillion. Now, tell me, do you see any government would ever listen to them? 10% chance? Oh, it could happen, you know, just it's with another government. So that's a problem, you know.

It's just—

You know what, you're totally right because it happened 10 years ago in Texas and guess what? They did nothing.

But that's a problem, you know. This is— it's a very short span. No, this is— nobody cares. It's— we think that with all this technology, with all the data, with all the supercomputers, we can analyze things and can make predictions. To the contrary, you know, we live, you know, just with a very short, you know, span of— Yeah, we're only alive for 100 years max, so— Speak for yourself.

Yeah, speak for myself.

Okay.

So, you know, so I guess my big question was, does it matter that these— that people believe this stuff? Like, whether snow is fake or not?

Yes, it does matter. It does matter.

It does matter.

I think it really matters a lot. Yes, I think people need to be more questioning.

And it's very hard to explain to someone that you need to care and not spread it, and when it seems so silly. But you know, I'm gonna end on a joke because there was something that was super funny. Back to Ted Cruz, right? Oh, wow. Coming back from Mexico, did you hear that someone hired a mariachi band to play outside his house?

Oh no.

It's on TMZ. I think we should sign off with it, don't you?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Smashing Security.

Security at your fingertips on any device. That's what 1Password offers—seamless syncing across all your computers and mobile devices so you can store and access unlimited passwords from anywhere at any time. Only you have the keys to decrypt your data and sensitive info. 1Password doesn't know it, doesn't share it, doesn't sell it. With cool features like Watchtower, which alerts you to any weak passwords, to Travel Mode, which allows you to hide certain vaults from your devices while on business or personal trips. Protect your whole family and get 50% off when you sign up for a 1Password family account. Check out 1password.com/switch50. That's 1password.com/switch50. Make your home a 1Password household.

And welcome back. Can you join us on our favorite part of the show, the part of the show that we like that called Pick of the Week. Pick of the Week. Garry, say Pick of the Week.

Pick of the Week.

Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they like. Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app. Whatever they wish. Doesn't have to be security-related necessarily.

Better not be.

Well, my Pick of the Week this week is not security-related. I have spoken in the past of my passion for a phenomenon which really came out of Norway. It's something called slow TV. TV taking an awfully long time. They originally broadcast a 7-hour train journey on the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation in 2009, since when they've produced a number of other fascinating, very, very slow events on TV. And for someone of my age, I quite find it quite comforting to have that sort of thing. Not so much as a screensaver. I think I could actually really genuinely watch it, and it'll just chill me out a bit. And there is a website called slowtvmap.com, and slowtvmap.com will give you a view of the globe, and you can see the various slow TV programs which have gone out there. You can map them around the place, and you could follow them, which is a rather marvelous thing.

Is this for like— do you mean slow like brain slow, like not super smart, like Garry and I? I'm just asking. I'm just— I'm just— I'm not judging.

Things which happen at a gentler pace, Carole, rather than the sort of MTV video generation. Actually, that's actually dated me, hasn't it?

Is it black and white?

I'm sure you can turn down the colour on your television if you want to, Garry, if that makes you more happy.

Improve the contrast, Graham.

Now, it's no surprise this sort of thing comes from Norwegian TV. You may have in the past spied or heard that they show chess actually, don't they, in prime time? Because Magnus Carlsen—

Yeah, chess is as popular as skiing in Norway these days because of Magnus Carlsen. Yes, it's on television every time Magnus is moving the pieces.

Amazing, amazing. I would love to watch that, have that on TV. If only there were similar chess-like experiences happening on TV for— I wonder, I wonder, Garry, if you may have been involved recently?

Yes, yes, and actually my pick of the week is futuristic because it's about the end of the week. It's the Golden Globes on Sunday, February 28th. The Golden Globes. And I'm holding my breath and waiting for my friend Scott Frank and his team to—

Win it.

Exactly, win it for The Queen's Gambit.

Yes, because you were consulting. You were like—

Yeah, I was consulting there. And I just, you know, there's not a single event, you know, in the last few months whether I'm at a conference talking about business, cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, God knows what, it always has Queen's Gambit brought in. And I thought that's a perfect pick of the week because it's this coming week. And I think they'll get it, just the trophy for the show. And I think Anya must win it just for best Elizabeth Harmon role. It was phenomenal. Look, for me, it was quite an experience. You know, just, I'll be very happy for my friends, you I was brought in to guarantee that the chess quality would be intact, so the real chess games, so up to the level of the games that were supposedly played at the highest level by the best players in the world. And I also promised Scott that I would help with the flavors of the Soviet chess arrangements to make sure that it's also real. I have to say that there were a few tiny glitches there. Some of my friends watched very carefully. And trying to pick up, you know, ah, you know what, this is the books, you know, the chess books on the shelf, they were of the '70s and everything, you know, was happening in the '60s. But the best one came from a Russian friend who said, I watched it very, very carefully, you know, it's a 1968 press conference and the world champion Borgov is sitting under the portrait of Leonid Brezhnev, but it's a much older version of Brezhnev. People are picking up every detail there. know, because it's, I feel I'm part of the team now, But it's amazing that this series about chess became number one show on Netflix ever. And it went throughout the world. It's almost in every country of the world. It was a great show. Exactly. It had a phenomenal success. And actually, it probably did more for chess than any world champion, myself included, could dream of throughout our careers. and I think they deserved it. It helped to clean the image of the game of chess from this, you know, the Playboy article, right? To the contrary, it's the image of, you know, game of the nerds, you know, which by the way, I successfully fought in my Playboy interview. It's nerd, you know, craziness, Bobby Fischer, you know, chess was widely believed to endanger your mental stability. The series proved the opposite. Beth Harmon succeeded in dropping her dependence on substances, whether green pills or alcohol, and she could build relations, build her life by playing chess. So, it was a big success.

The best one, you follow me on my Twitter account, Kasparov63. Yes. And also Kasparov.com. That's my website with more news.

And my fingers crossed. I have to say, obviously, I love chess, as listeners know. So, I'm not a good chess player. Yes, I do quite like chess. I am appalling at chess, but I really like chess. But I think The Queen's Gambit was great, even if you didn't like chess. It was still really enjoyable.

Do you get Oh, and season 2? a bonus if they win?

Yeah, I don't know if there'll be a season 2. I don't know. No, no, I just, I, I wouldn't bet on that. It's just, you know, the story's over. It's the Walter Tevis, you know, had one book, and I doubt that he would have anything, anything to add, though it's very unfortunate that he died, you know, a year later after the book was published in 1983.

They can count on Garry.

Exactly. Carole, what's your pick of the week? Not nearly as exciting. Actually, it's— I don't even know, it's a semi-pick of the week. It's a semi-pick of the week. 2036. Yes, yes.

So if you're 15 years in the future, yes, and some scientist or computer, right, uncovers the existence of the soul particle in humans— okay, I know, yeah, whatever— yeah, which means that anyone can have a test that will reveal when his or her perfect partner appears when they take a test. Oh, oh, I see. So you can go have a test and they might go, oh, you know, your, your perfect match has never taken the test, or they have taken the test and it's this person. So the whole kind of show is basically a what would you do. So for example, if such a test existed, guys, would you take it? You know, you're— yes, yes. But you know, for me, I'm happily married, right? Do I go in?

Exactly. Be aware of your wishes. Yeah. Yeah. Are you happily married? I love the Wookiee man. Well, yeah, but maybe there's a— maybe there's a Mrs. Wookiee. Out there.

I know, I know. That's exactly true.

Chewbacca, her name could be. Yes, Chewbacquette.

Yeah, that's classic, you know, more knowledge, more grief. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. So the first episode focuses on the married couple, right? And they're happy. But the world's starting to change because their friends are basically getting divorced and matching up with their data-matched couples. And what should they do?

Hang on, but this scientist or computer, they could have made a mistake, couldn't they? Maybe there's a bug in the algorithm.

Maybe it got hacked. Yeah.

No, it doesn't get hacked, does it?

I'm just saying, if you like Black Mirror, this is not as good, but it's good, I think. Although I'm alone. IMDb gives it 5 out of 10 stars, I think. And Guardian gave it a 3 out of 5. And I think it's a bit harsh. I think it's kind of— but I mean, I've only watched 2 out of the 6 that are available for season 1. I've been indoors for so long, so who am I to judge about anything? So I don't know, check it out. Soulmates, Amazon Prime.

That's what I've been doing.

Oh, pick of the week. Very interesting. Well, that just about wraps it up for this week. Garry, thank you for being such a spectacular guest today. It's been great fun having you here.

Thanks for having me again. So, and, you know, I'm counting to 3 now.

Yay! With pleasure. I'm sure lots of our listeners would love to follow you online.

T-shirts? Can you get t-shirts there?

What's the best way for folks to do that?

No, I don't know. Not yet. So maybe I should consider it after having this conversation.

We'll send you a Smashing Security t-shirt. Show you the kind of quality stuff we've got. You can follow us on Twitter @SmashingSecurity, no G. Twitter doesn't allow us to have a G. And you can also find us on the Smashing Security subreddit. And don't forget to make sure you never miss another episode. Subscribe in your favorite podcast apps such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts.

And huge, huge thank you to this week's episode sponsor, 1Password, and our wonderful Patreon community. Thanks to them, this show is free for all. And for episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest lists, and the entire back catalog of all our 200+ shows, check out smashingsecurity.com.

Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye, bye-bye. Garry, say bye. I was gonna fake it. Bye. Maybe he's already gone.

Oh no, I hope not.

I think he might have done. Garry, are you still there?

Garry?

Garry? No, no. Yeah, he's definitely