This transcript was generated automatically, and has not been manually verified. It may contain errors and omissions. In particular, speaker labels, proper nouns, and attributions may be incorrect. Treat it as a helpful guide rather than a verbatim record — for the real thing, give the episode a listen.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. So it's a bit of a mystery.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, you don't know the answer?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, for God's sake.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No, but Carole, listen.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's like one of those podcasts where it's like, let's find out what happened in this 20-year-old murder. And it turns out, oh well, we don't know. Turns out we're still looking. Thanks for listening.

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UNKNOWN. Smashing Security, Episode 313: Tesla Twins and Deepfake Dramas with Carole Theriault. Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley. Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security episode 313. My name is Graham Cluley.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. And I'm great. I was going to say I'm Graham Cluley.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. What?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. My brain, I was just having a brain fart while you were talking and then I started speaking. And I'm Carole Theriault.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Identity theft.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Hello, Carole.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Hi. Are you all right?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't know. Do you know, today I ironed, I don't know, 60 new artworks because I hate doing it so much. I know it's a weird thing. But when you do watercolor, the page gets all warped and then you can iron them afterwards to get them all flat. But I never do it after each painting. I just let them mount up, mount up, mount up. Anyway, so—

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Isn't there a danger in ironing artwork? You could scorch it or maybe the ink would go all dribbly.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, well, that's why I do it. No one else, right?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. All right. Okay. Fair enough.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. So there you go. That's me. How about you?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. All right.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. 'Cause we have no one here today.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No one, oh yes, no guests today. Just you and me, Carole, just you and me.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's because I think it's 313, like bad luck show.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh yes, anything could happen in the next 45 minutes.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I know, but thank God for this week's sponsors, Bitwarden, Kolide, and Drata. It's their support that help us give you this show for free. Now coming up on today's show, Graham, what do you got?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I'm going to be talking to you about some trouble with Teslas.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay. And I am diving into deepfakes, the good, the bad, and then the good again. All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, chum chum, Carole, have you ever found yourself somewhere that you shouldn't be? Think about it. Have you ever opened the wrong door and gone in? Crossing into the wrong country.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I once went into the loo from the airport, right? Talking on the phone, going, "Honey, I've landed. I'm just gonna go have a pee and it's gonna be great." And I'm talking to him and I get in the loo and I sit down and everything. I say, "Okay, I'll talk to you soon, honey." And I hear someone at the urinal.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, it was a men's loo? Oh dear.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. So yeah, that kind of thing's happened.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah. These things can happen, can't they?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. They can happen.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. It's embarrassing. At least you didn't sit on the conveyor belt thinking you're on the loo or something like that. It's embarrassing. It's awkward. Well, it's the sort of thing which happens to me all the time, I have to say, is I make a little blunder, especially as I become a little bit more elderly, maybe a little bit less. Maybe I'm concentrating a little less. Maybe it's because I'm concentrating so much on breathing, existing, walking that I can't also make coherent decisions about my life. Well, let me tell you a story about someone who perhaps was a little absent-minded as well.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I was just going to agree with that statement, but you hurried along so fast.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I'm going to take you to the eastern coast of Canada, to a place called Vancouver.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Ah, beautiful, beautiful province. Or not, sorry, are you talking Vancouver the city? Sorry.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Vancouver City, I think.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, Vancouver the city.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. Yeah.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. So, I include some Canadian content just to maintain your interest during my part of this story.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Thank you. I appreciate it.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. In Vancouver, there is a gentleman called Rajesh Randev.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. And he is an immigration consultant. And earlier this month—

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't know what they do. Am I supposed to know what they do?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, he's helping people with their immigration.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, okay.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay. Okay.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Right.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. So he's an expert in that, helps, assists people, does paperwork, I would think.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. There is a lot of paperwork.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. An important job. An important job. And one particular Tuesday afternoon, he was in a rush. Because he had to go pick up the kids from school.

So he's working away, he's in his office, and he dashes out of his office onto the street and he leaps into his car. Puts his foot down, or it's actually an electric vehicle.

You know, they make some sort of spaceship-type hovering noise, don't they? Rather than that. And there he is.

Take my word for it. There he is driving along for a few miles.

Everything's going fine and dandy. You know, he's happy as a bumblebee. And, but hang on a minute.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. What?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. What? What? He's thinking, what? What? That's odd. That's odd. He's looking at his windscreen and he notices there's a slight crack in it.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. He thinks, I don't remember my windscreen getting cracked. When did my windscreen get cracked? When did that happen?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, is he one of these people that gets really upset?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, he does get a bit upset.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Right.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Because what he does is he rings up his wife. He goes, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Mrs. Randev, he says, "Well, what's—" It's very formal of him, I suppose. He says, "What's going on with my windscreen? There's a crack in the windscreen."

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CAROLE THERIAULT. "What the heck's that all about?" Right. Nice guy. Nice.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Right. And Mrs. Randev says, "Well, I don't know what. It's nothing to do with me." She says, "It wasn't me." And he said, "Well, it wasn't me either." He says, "How did we get this crack in my—" Because he's quite proud of his car, you see. He's quite proud and he's perplexed and he's annoyed.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. He has a flash car, does he?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, it's a sparkling white Tesla that has been his pride and joy. The kids love it. The wife loves it.

They bought it in the middle of last year. They're really enjoying all its technological newfangledness, you know, its big sort of iPad screen, its wizardry.

Can I digress just for one second here?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Of course. I have a lot of questions about people who love cars or trainers or things that have to go outside and get mucked about with the actual world.

Old at any given time, right? Like trainers that you wear and then they get a bit scuffed and you freak out.

Seems weird to me. Same with a car.

I just think, why not have your pride possessions be something that you don't, you know, wear externally and can be— anyway, there you go.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Have you seen Troy Hunt's new car? He's been tweeting about it and posting pictures.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Has he finally got his Tesla?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No, no, no, no. He refuses to buy an electric at the moment. He's just bought himself a McLaren, which I think in a bright canary yellow.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Wonderful. I know, that's beautiful.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well done him. Well done him, well done. Exactly, yeah. Anyway, so he loves his Tesla, Mr. Rajesh Randeep.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Right.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. And, you know, but he's a bit annoyed about this crack on the screen. And then— must cost a fortune to fix, right? Well, it'll cost a bit, won't it?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. And then— Rajesh gets a text message on his phone. And the text message is from an unknown number. And the message says, "Hello, Rajesh." "Do you drive a Tesla?" It's spooky, isn't it? Well, so the way you're saying it sounds pretty spooky.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I think it's a yes/no question, right? Or fuck off. It seems to be—

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, no, actually, actually, it's not a yes/no question because he doesn't reply it yes or no. What he does is he replies saying, "Who is this?" Question with a question. Exactly, that's the way to do it, isn't it?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Like it. Yeah, don't you think? Yeah, of course, don't you?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I do, but I'm not sure everyone would. Would you? I can't do this. Yeah, anyway, so he says, "Who's this?" And then this mystery person says, "I think you're driving the wrong car." And Rajesh pulls the car over to the side of the road. He gets out of the car, and he takes a look at it. He goes, "This isn't my car."

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Are you freaking kidding me? If you— How much do Teslas cost? How much? A serious wedge of cash.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Not as much as Troy Hunt's McLaren. But yes, a lot. And you can't tell if it's yours, easily?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's a white Tesla. I mean, you know, it's a Model T Ford, right? They're all coming black. Yeah, but don't people hang little dice or, you know, little cool things off the window?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No, no, no, Carole, you don't hang dice.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Put wooden beads down the back of the seat for a little massage.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. That's what I'd do. One of those little Christmas tree air fresheners.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, no, I don't those. Oh, they're bad, aren't they? They're so bad.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. But no, he notices that the wheels, the alloy wheels are different. He's "hang on, those aren't mine."

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CAROLE THERIAULT. He was in a hurry, of course. He was in a hurry.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. He was in a hurry. He's off to get the kids.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. See, paying attention, because it's Vancouver.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. And he notices that the EV charging cable is different from his. So it's got a different charging cable, and he thinks, this isn't my Tesla. So the question is, what do you do then? Well, you asked the guy on the phone, "Do I have your Tesla?" Well, what Rajesh did was he said, "Well, I've still gotta go and pick up the kids." So he got back in the car and started it up again, drove off and picked up his kids. Because you gotta get the kids from school, that's the most important thing.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, I'm missing a very big question here. How was he able to start the other Tesla? Exactly, yes, sorry, it took me a while.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Exactly, right. How was he able to gain entry and then drive off in this other Tesla? He was driving around.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, he's so rich, he just leaves it run the whole time. It just sits there waiting for him, purring.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. He was driving around for an hour and a half. And later on, after he'd picked up the kids, after he'd taken them home, he met up with the man who texted him to sort things out and to swap cars, because it turned out their two cars had been next to each other, parked next to each other.

Sometimes people like to do that, don't they? I don't know, especially if they're a bit posy with a car.

No idea. Yeah, some people do. Some people like to park their car next to the same kind of — it's like, oh, look, they're kind of twins. They like to do that.

And what happened was this — not twins like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito. Not that kind of twins. Proper identical twins, almost.

And this other guy who'd been left with Rajesh's car, he'd been able to find out how to call Rajesh because he'd peered in through the window, and there'd been a document sat on the seat which included his name and phone number. So he thought, this other Tesla here, maybe it's this guy who's taken mine.

So he texted him, said, I think you've got my car. So Rajesh had simply jumped into the wrong car.

But you're absolutely right. How had he been able to gain access to it and then drive off and then stop and get out and then get back in and drive off again and pick up the kids, etc., etc., etc.?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Do they magically have the same key fob, the one in 10,000?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, the thing with Teslas is that you can control them with a smartphone app. And so this is what a lot of Tesla owners do, I believe.

Just having the smartphone with your app on your person can unlock the car, so you don't have to faff around and look for keys and things, which I always think is a bit weird anyway, relying on a smartphone app. Because I don't know about you, but my phone runs out of battery at least once a day, and I have to plug it in. And that would be rather inconvenient.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, but maybe you have a backup key as well, though. You know, maybe you have a backup battery.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, if you've got a backup key, just use your backup key all the time. Why would you ever use the smartphone? I don't understand it.

But maybe Tesla owners can explain that one to me. I don't understand it now.

So it's a bit of a mystery, and it sounds like you don't know the answer. Oh, for God's sake.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. No, but Carole, it's like one of those podcasts where it's like, let's find out what happened, this 20-year-old murder, and it turns out, oh well, we don't know. Turns out we're still looking.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Thanks for listening. I'm gonna give you —

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I love those, by the way.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. So one theory is that the car which was taken could have been left in valet mode. So you can leave your car in valet mode so someone else can park it for you if you're going to a swanky restaurant, for instance.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. And take it off down the highway, super far away from your phone? No problems?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, it depends where the car park is, I suppose, doesn't it?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I suppose it does. And the school could have been around the block. He could have just walked there, possibly.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. We don't know. So Rajesh contacted Tesla and said, what on earth's going on here?

You know, this is what's happened to me. Here's a little video where I'm showing this happening, because he made a little video and things.

But when he emailed Tesla, it's not that he didn't get a reply. He did get a reply. He got a bounce back.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. He had the right address.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. He had the right address. He got a bounce back saying that Tesla's email mailbox was full and couldn't — Do you know?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, I have two thoughts on that. One, OMG, things aren't going so well. But two, if my mailbox was full or whatever, I don't want a third party being told.

I guess they have to, you know, it's not their business. Why doesn't it just say not delivered? For reasons, you know, cannot deliver email, done.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. For reasons which are none of your business. None of your beeswax.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Right. Mr. Curious, curious, curious.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Maybe Tesla's IT team are currently doing a bit of work at Twitter because of course Twitter has reduced its staff somewhat. I don't know.

Now, I thought maybe Rajesh has made a mistake. Maybe he's emailed the wrong address. Well then Canadian news outlet Global News, they tried contacting Tesla's press office as well. They got the same response. As of Thursday, no one from Tesla had gotten back to him. And we didn't fare much better. Reaching out to their press office, we got the same response. Sorry, mailbox full. So nobody has heard back from Tesla.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. See, this is clever. See, they're just going to— they're faking this and they're just waiting for the big boys to get in touch, the real big media. Right. They're just— this is a whole campaign.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I'm on to them. I suppose it's a way of dealing with ransomware demands as well.

If someone emails you blackmailing your company, you can just say, well, we're, you know, piss off. We're not here. None of your beeswax. Exactly. Carole, what's your story for us this week?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay. You know that term, Graham? I don't know if I want to say it. Okay. I'm going to. I'll be a bit polite. It's called the poo sandwich.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. The shit baguette. Yes.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. The shit baguette, right? You sandwich a complaint between two positive doughy comments or bready comments.

So just to explain it to our listeners, maybe I should give an example.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Give an example.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. So if I were to say, hey, Graham. Hi. You're really good at public speaking.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, thank you very much.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. One of the best I've heard in our circuit. One of the best. But don't you think it's time to park the crappy accents?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, you know. Yeah. The Italian. Yeah.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Thing is, though, you're so good at public speaking, you don't need this old-school crutch to deliver amazing content.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Ah, so you gave me two slices of bread there. Lovely bread, lovely carbs.

And in the middle, a sucker punch. A little bit derogatory about my ability and appropriateness of some of my— advice, perhaps. Perhaps, but still hurtful to hear. Guidance.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, hurtful to say. Hurtful to say.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Let's think about me for a second. Okay. All right. Yes.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. You want to tell me one just to make it fair, or?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I find it difficult to give you bread. I know you're trying to be low on carbs.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I love bread. I do love bread.

So I thought, you know, this whole sandwich à la BS, right? I thought this is how I was going to present today's story on deepfakes. Because before we get into the, you know, sticky, sticky middle, the meat of the— well, yeah, the hummus.

Gross. I think we have to say that deepfakes are pretty super crazy realistic and kind of incredible. Really, there is potential for a lot of great things despite all the not so great things that we hear about in the press, don't you think?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes. I mean, I remember one of my picks of the week from last year was a documentary about Gerry Anderson where they had an audio interview with him and they managed to deepfake it into becoming a camera interview with him.

And it was, you know, it helped with the documentary.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Exactly. And if someone was differently abled to the point where interacting in the real world was difficult, this could be a super big lifeline. It'd be amazing.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. If I had a big zit on the end of my nose and had to do some public speaking, then I might think, oh, if I could just rustle up a deepfake of myself saying these words.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. And also think of our career extension, Graham. You know, we could maybe, you know, at 80, if we're still around, knocking about, we could be doing this show sounding like and looking like we're in our prime. Like we are now.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. We could still be doing it at 120. We could carry on past our physical existence. Our ancestors could still benefit from all of this, whatever it is. Yeah, sounds good.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, that was my slice of niceness. My first slice. Is that good? Can we get to the poo filling?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I feel good now. I feel good about deepfakes.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, but Christ, Christ Almighty. What are we going to do with the idiots that are testing this tech at the expense of actual people? Take student Taylor Klein. So yesterday Rolling Stone told a bit of her story, how Klein, a math whiz engineer student from an engineering family, she says she's someone who doesn't break the rules. She admires her mom's work ethic. Anyway, one day during her senior year of college, Klein receives a Facebook message from one of her buds. And it says, writes Rolling Stone, "I'm really sorry, but I think you need to see this." And thing is, she'd been getting weird Facebook messages from strangers. One even called her disgusting, right? So she's kind of baffled.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Right? Okay.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. But this held the answer because her friend sends her a link to a Pornhub video. And in it, she clicks and she sees a video of a woman who looks exactly like her having sex with a man. But of course, this never happened. It was just that her face was superimposed over another woman's face. And when she sees it, it already has thousands of views. And she's thinking my parents, oh my God, my family, my friends, what are they going to think?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Your parents often go to Pornhub?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. But you know, you think the word gets out in the street in town. I suppose it could.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I suppose people could be sharing the link saying, oh my God, have you seen what Taylor's been up to?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. You have mouthy, mouthy, you know, gossipy Sheila coming up when you're shopping for apples, you know, going, oh, I saw your daughter. I heard, or something.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I once had, not as professional as a deepfake, but I once had people superimpose my head onto images of people committing acts of bestiality, and they were posted up on Facebook. Someone who didn't like me. And I thought—

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Why are you mentioning that?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Do you want to bring it all back? No, I'm just— Just giving people ideas? Just giving an example of what can happen.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Sorry, I thought we were— I'm really sorry that happened to you. That's really shitty.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I thought we were in the bad bit of the—

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CAROLE THERIAULT. We are still in the bad stuff. Yeah, it's a big feeling. Okay. Where she didn't know who did this to her. That's the other thing. You're like, who? Right? So Taylor Klein decides to take action, calls the cops, and they say, look, we don't really know what we can do, but we'll look into it and we'll call you back. And a few weeks later, she finally gets that call. And the cop tells her that the tormentor was within his rights to do what they did. And there's nothing they can do given there's no laws concerning non-consensual deepfake sexual abuse in her state, or what they're calling porn.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Really?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. And that doesn't yet fall within the confines of non-consensual porn law. It's crazy, right?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. It feels like threatening behavior though, to publish something. I mean, I'm—

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I am not a lawyer. Don't we own our face? Do we really need to start getting documents when we're born along with our birth certificate?

Here's the copyright documents for your facial features, voice, fingerprints?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. If we all had barcodes on our foreheads, maybe it'd be easier to prove that it was our head. I don't know. But yeah, basically, the law can't keep up with the technology, can it?

Yeah, I don't know.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. This is according to Cyber Civil Rights Initiative. Only 4 US states have deepfake laws that aren't specific to political elections.

The UK, EU, and China are looking into crackdowns. 'But looking into,' geez, can we get our skates on and sharpish?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. It feels like the only way that she could get the police to take action is if she actually put herself up for a political election. If she was a political candidate, then she could claim, well, I am part of the political process and this deepfake is denigrating to my image.

Then maybe they'd take action.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Taylor Klein, if you're listening, feel free, man. I think that's a good idea if you're up for it.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. It's insane that the law isn't protecting the rest of us.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. No. And it's like, it could be someone doing it to humiliate a person, or it could be someone just doing it for shits and giggles, right?

We're in that bit of the sandwich. Or for kinks.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, yeah, you know, but you're digitally devastating a person in doing this. The risk is huge.

Anyway, this story, Taylor Klein's story, has been featured in Another Body. This is a documentary that premiered at the recent SXSW.

But before I wrap up, we of course need another lovely piece of gorgeous bread. Please. Right?

To help the filling go down. And I have it.

Denmark Tourism Board to the rescue. And what I would call maybe, and Graham, I think you'll agree, a PR coup de grâce.

You know, we've come up with a few in our time, haven't we? They put out a mini video campaign that focuses on their art collection.

And it is one of the first to simultaneously use both deepfake and motion synthesis with an AI-generated script.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Do you want to see it? Okay. Oh, so we've got a video of the Mona Lisa and she's talking to us.

Oh, other famous pictures.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. There's a link in the show notes as always.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Portrait of Van Gogh.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's kind of sweet. And I just think we should have more positive uses for deepfakes if they're coming at us thick and fast.

Oh, and legislators, chop chop.

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That's collide.com/smashing. And thanks to Collide for sponsoring the show.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Our friends at Bitwarden have been busy this month, adding some fab new features to their open-source password management solution. Now, did you know that you can log into Bitwarden using a secondary device instead of your master password?

Well, now you do. Logging in with a device is a passwordless approach to authentication.

It removes the need to enter your master password by sending authentication requests to other devices you're currently logged into for approval. With Login for Device, it can be initiated on the Web Vault browser extension, desktop app, mobile app, and you can approve access on your mobile and desktop app version of Bitwarden.

Very, very cool. And The Bitwarden team has hardened the security of its vaults, protecting new vaults with 600,000 iterations by default.

And of course, existing accounts can also update themselves to the same level. These and many other great security features are incorporated all the time into Bitwarden, keeping your passwords secure from hackers.

Learn more, try Bitwarden for yourself at bitwarden.com/smashing. That's bitwarden.com/smashing.

Smashingsecurity.com. And welcome back.

Can you join us at our favorite part of the show? The part of the show that we like to call Pick of the Week.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Pick of the Week. Pick of the Week.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they like. Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app.

Whatever they like. Doesn't have to be security related necessarily.

Better not be. Well, my pick of the week this week is not security related.

Excellent. My partner the other day said, oh, I saw this great movie when I was 5 years old, and maybe you'd like it.

I said, what movie you liked when you were 5 years old? You think I'd like it?

She said, yeah, it's brilliant. It's called Sholay.

Sholay. Sholay.

I'd never heard of Sholay. Apparently, if you are Indian, You not only know about Sholay, you've probably seen Sholay about 58 times.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's like the movie that plays every Christmas or every holiday.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. There may even be movie theatres in India which are still playing Sholay on a regular basis, because it appears to be an institution. It's like Star Wars.

It's like The Sound of Music. And let me tell you about Sholay.

The plot is there's a retired policeman played by Sanjeev Kumar. He hires two small-time but lovable crooks: Veeru, played by Dharmendra, and J, played by Mr. B himself, the big one, Amitabh Bachchan.

His career in Bollywood really started with this movie. This is what made him a star.

Their mission is to capture the bandit Gabbar Singh. Now, this movie is in Hindi, okay?

So, you need to get the subtitles. Okay.

I tried watching it without subtitles. Doesn't work.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, unless you speak Hindi.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Unless you speak Hindi. Right, okay. It is effectively a Bollywood western. So, think The Magnificent Seven, but not as tedious.

And there are great music, songs, action, romance, some broad comedy, some of which in the early part of the movie I think isn't very funny. And I thought, I'm not so sure about this. Now, it's a long movie. It's about 3 hours long.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. 3 hours, eh? Wow. And there's an intermission.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, the first time I watched it, I did fall asleep in the first half.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, quelle surprise! You fall asleep watching a television show that's 22 minutes long. Yeah.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. So my partner at the intermission explained what had been going on. And I was then enthused enough to stay awake for the second half. And having seen the second half and loved it, I then went back and watched the first half again, but this time awake.

So, I think it's a great movie. Utterly charming, extremely entertaining. And if you have 3 hours to kill, right?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It will fly past. Yeah, especially if you have a nap in the middle.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. But do try and get a version which has English subtitles if you need English subtitles. I found it rather hard to track one down. Eventually, I watched it on YouTube Movies.

But it doesn't have subtitles on the songs. And the songs are really good. It's got a great soundtrack as well.

The songs are terrific, but you may have to look them up I did on Google to find out what the words are in English to understand what's going on. As I said, if you're Indian, you know, Sholay, but the rest of the world needs to check out Sholay.

I found it immensely enjoyable. I'm including in the show notes a link to where you can watch the trailer, but also a review of Sholay, which will give you a feel for it. But immensely entertaining. And that is my pick of the week.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's really fun when we can just choose from any old time period, isn't it? Even 1975. Yeah. Cool.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Are you a fan of any Bollywood movies, Carole?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Do you know, I've watched Bollywood films because I used to travel Air India from Canada to England a long time ago, and I used to watch them there a lot. But I don't know anything about it. I don't, you know.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I'm going to check out some more. I genuinely found this incredibly entertaining.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, great. There's a huge, I mean, it's the second biggest movie house in the world, I think, India. So you've got, you know. There we go. Yeah, it's all cut out for you.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Carole, what's your pick of the week?

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, I'm hoping that you have not heard about this because I can take full credit for crowbarring this into your echo chamber. So for my pick of the week, I have to start with a question. Have you come across a person named Brad Mehldau? A musician called Brad Mehldau?

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No, I don't think so. No. Okay, good for me.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. So he's a Grammy Award-winning, you know, jazz pianist. And a few months ago, he put out an album that I heard about. And then I thought immediately, this is one for Graham.

So I went and did a bit of recon, and I think it has my stamp of approval for you. I'm going to tell you the name of the album and you're going to go, ah, you'll maybe guess what he's done. Right? So he's a jazz pianist. The name of the album is called Your Mother Should Know.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Ah, well, Your Mother Should Know is a 1967 song by the Beatles from the Magical Mystery Tour EP. Exactly.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. So in this album, he interprets songs by the Beatles.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Lovely.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes. Do you want to hear? Do you want to hear? Why not? Okay. Because it's good. Okay. This is him playing for NPR on Fresh Air.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Ah, cuckoo kachoo.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. It's good, eh? I listened to an extended interview on Fresh Air, which I'll recommend and put into the show notes as well. But he says there what he loved best about this was trying to bring the whole instrumentation to the piano.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Because this is I Am the Walrus he's playing, which is an incredible piece of music by the Beatles. And complicated. Beautiful. Very complicated. Very strange piece of music by John Lennon. And yeah, quite interesting to hear that on just a piano, I think. And that's fantastic. I like the sound of this.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I thought you would. So I thought it was a cute way because I dabble in a bit of jazz and I just thought it was a cute way for our worlds, you know, to intersect. Ain't that a beautiful thing? So my pick of the week is Brad Mehldau's album Your Mother Should Know, which came out, I think, in December.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. I'll check it out. Thanks very much. You're very welcome. Well, that just about wraps up the show for this week. You can follow us on Twitter @SmashingSecurity, no G, Twitter doesn't allow us to G. We also have a Mastodon account. Find it at smashingsecurity.com/mastodon. That's the easiest way to get there. And check out Smashing Security on Reddit as well. And don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode. Follow Smashing Security in your favorite podcast app. For instance, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Overcast.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Don't you think it's a bit like saying using a search engine such as Google, Bing, and— Massive shout out to this episode's sponsors, Drata, Collide, and Bitwarden. And of course, to our wonderful Patreon community. It's thanks to them all that this show is free. For episode show notes, sponsorship info, guest list, and the entire back catalog of more than 312 episodes, check out Smashing Security.com.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye. Smashing. See you later.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Cool album.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Cool album.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I think you'll like it.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, I don't like the song Your Mother Should Know. I think that's a really weak song with the Beatles, but the rest of them—

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, I'll tell you, he does I Am the Walrus, Your Mother Should Know, I Saw Her Standing There, okay, For No One. Yes, Baby You're a Rich Man, She Said She Said, Here There and Everywhere, If I Needed Someone, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Golden Slumbers, and Life on Mars.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, which is a Bowie song. That one snuck in.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't know. It has a question mark at the end, so I don't know. I haven't heard that.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. Is there life on Mars? Yeah. Terrific. Oh, check it out. That's excellent. I Am the Walrus. Yeah, I'll definitely check that one out. That's good. Cool.

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CAROLE THERIAULT. Cool. Okay, good. I will slam this in tonight. I'm out. Yep. But I'll do it tomorrow.

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GRAHAM CLULEY. No worries. Have fun. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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