A bug unravels 3D printer security, cryptocurrency sites can't stop getting hacked, and hear our special guest spill a cup of tea while inhabiting his wife's knicker drawer.
All this and much much more can be found in the latest edition of the "Smashing Security" podcast by computer security veterans Graham Cluley and Carole Theriault, joined this week by BBC cybersecurity correspondent Joe Tidy.
Visit https://www.smashingsecurity.com/240 to check out this episode’s show notes and episode links.
Follow the show on Twitter at @SmashinSecurity, or on the Smashing Security subreddit, or visit our website for more episodes.
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Warning: This podcast may contain nuts, adult themes, and rude language.
Theme tune: "Vinyl Memories" by Mikael Manvelyan.
Assorted sound effects: AudioBlocks.
Special Guest: Joe Tidy.
Sponsored By:
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Links:
- We Broke Into A Bunch Of Android Phones With A 3D-Printed Head — Forbes.
- Wake up this morning and see this on my 3D printer (I use octoprint and now I’m scared) — Reddit.
- What’s *THAT* on my 3D printer? Cloud bug lets anyone print to everyone — Naked Security.
- A detailed analysis of the security incident last night — The Spaghetti Detective.
- The PewDiePie Hackers: Could hacking printers ruin your life? — BBC News.
- The $600 million Poly Network hacker's Q&A — Twitter.
- Crypto hacker offered reward after $600m heist — BBC News.
- Hackers steal nearly $100m in Japan crypto heist — BBC News.
- Altsbit Crypto Exchange Gets Hacked, 'Almost All Funds' Are Gone — Bitcoinist.
- Bitpoint Exchange Hacked for $32 Million in Cryptocurrency — CoinDesk.
- Coincheck: World's biggest ever digital currency 'theft' — BBC News.
- The Inside Story of Mt. Gox, Bitcoin's $460 Million Disaster — Wired.
- Buying a pink NFT cat was a crypto nightmare — BBC News.
- Hearings Continue In Case Of Wealthy Robotics Founder Sued By His Wife For ‘Indefensible’ Sale Price Of His Startup — Forbes.
- Google ‘founder’ created revenge site against estranged wife — New York Post.
- Billionaire investor who helped launch Google is accused of 'divorce terrorism' in bitter break-up — Daily Mail.
- Cracker (British TV series) — Wikipedia.
- Cracker — BritBox.
- K&F Concept 4K WiFi 30MP Trail Camera Game Camera with 940nm Infrared Outdoor IP66 Waterproof Hunting Infrared Night Vision Camera — K&F Concept.
- Keeping the Wolf Out — BBC Radio 4.
- Smashing Security merchandise (t-shirts, mugs, stickers and stuff)
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
Transcript +
This transcript was generated automatically, and has not been manually verified. It may contain errors and omissions. In particular, speaker labels, proper nouns, and attributions may be incorrect. Treat it as a helpful guide rather than a verbatim record — for the real thing, give the episode a listen.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh boy, she looks rather litigious.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yep.
GRAHAM CLULEY. And she wrote an article in 1999 for Salon.com.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Did someone just fall over?
JOE TIDY. I've just spilt my tea.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh no. Oh my God.
JOE TIDY. Back in a sec.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It's a crisis.
CAROLE THERIAULT. It is a crisis. I've done this and ruined laptops.
JOE TIDY. I'm back. I'm back. So just to describe to the listener what I'm dealing with here. I'm actually broadcasting from my wife's knicker drawer because the kids are being ultra loud downstairs. So what's happened is I've hung up a shirt in the cupboard I'm in and it's fallen down, hit my tea, and now I'm standing in a pool of tea. So it's going well.
UNKNOWN. Smashing Security, episode 240. 3D printer hijacks, crypto fails, and a tech billionaire's revenge with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley. Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security episode 240. My name's Graham Cluley.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I'm Carole Theriault.
GRAHAM CLULEY. And this week, Carole, we're joined by a special guest, someone who's never been on the show before. We are joined by someone who I believe is the BBC's first and maybe only cybersecurity correspondent, Mr. Joe Tidy. Is that right, Joe? Hello.
JOE TIDY. Hello. Yes. Well, at the moment, yeah, I'm the first and at the moment At the moment, I'm the only one, but the way things are going, there'll be about, you know, there'll be a team of 100 of us soon.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I know, but to be the first, right? You're gonna be able to talk about this till, you know, the end of your days.
JOE TIDY. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, well, they got me in in 2018, along with a load of other specialists who were, I suppose, growth areas, you'd call it. Yeah. So there's a gender and identity correspondent, there's a population correspondent, an Africa religion correspondent, and then there's cybersecurity, or cyber, as I changed it. About 6 months ago, I changed it to cyber so that I could do do other stuff as well, like, you know, things like gaming and, you know, that sort of thing as well. 'Cause when you do a gaming story, for example, putting cybersecurity correspondent as your kind of byline is a bit weird.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Hey, Carole, should we change the name of our podcast? Should we just be Smashing Cyber? What do you think?
JOE TIDY. No. No.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Just, how about just Smashing?
GRAHAM CLULEY. A Smashing Podcast. Ah, wouldn't that be lovely?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Let's thank this week's sponsors, AT&T Networks and 1Password. It's their support that help us give you this show for free. Now, coming up on today's show, Graham, What do you got?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, I've got something rather undesirable squirting out of my 3D printer.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, Joe, what about you?
JOE TIDY. Have you got cream for that? I've got something about the chaos in cryptocurrency exchanges, why on earth they are being hacked all the time and losing hundreds of millions of dollars.
CAROLE THERIAULT. And I'm going to look at the tech version of a celeb divorce. All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, chums, chums, to introduce my story this week, I'm going to give you a little puzzle. I'm going to name 4 things, and I would like you to tell me which of the following is real and which are fake. So which is which, right? I have the carbonara constable, the spaghetti detective, the taramasalata traffic warden, and the Pizza Police. It's not from some new version of Cluedo that I'm getting these. Which of those do you think might be real and which might be fake?
CAROLE THERIAULT. I have no idea.
JOE TIDY. I think taramasalata to me sounds a bit far— I mean, they all sound far-fetched, but I don't know what that would mean.
CAROLE THERIAULT. That would be hard to spell as well.
JOE TIDY. Exactly.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Poor SEO on that one. I'm going to guess the real one, Pizza Police.
GRAHAM CLULEY. The Pizza Police does sound plausible, doesn't it? Yeah. Maybe it does exist. Well, we'll find out during the course of my story which one is the real one? Because I am talking this week about 3D printers. Do either of you own a 3D printer, or have you played with 3D printers?
CAROLE THERIAULT. I've played with one. I don't own one. Bet Jo's played with them loads.
JOE TIDY. No, you know what? I've never done a 3D printing story. I feel like as a tech journalist, I have missed a rite of passage. I need to go and get my face or something printed for a piece to camera, don't I? It's gotta be done.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't think you have to use body parts, Jo.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I remember there was a story, I think it was Thom Brewster Forbes. He got his own face 3D printed and created a mask of himself.
JOE TIDY. My colleague Rory Kethan-Jones did the exact same thing as well. I literally think it's a rite of passage, yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. They hang it in their living room or something.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, no, you use it to beat facial recognition systems. It's like a Mission: Impossible-style thing.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, but what do you do afterwards, right? It's not like he wears it all the time.
GRAHAM CLULEY. No, he could get his wife to wear it.
JOE TIDY. He could do a bit of Silence of the Lambs cosplay or something. If you're gonna go down a dark route.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, 3D printers, for those who aren't aware, they work by extruding— great word, that— extruding molten plastic through a tiny nozzle. And it's the nozzle which moves very precisely, you know, X, Y, but not just X and Y, but Z axis as well, under the control of a computer. And molten plastic, a polymer, is squirted out, cools down, And then some more plastic is squirted out, hopefully sticking to the previous piece. It's a bit like doing icing on a cake, Kryll.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Mm-hmm.
GRAHAM CLULEY. And it builds up your 3D model bit by bit. It's very clever. And there are all kinds of potential uses. Some people are really excited about the potential for printing 3D spare body parts. So if you feel, oh, you know, my, my right calf isn't quite impressive enough, maybe you could get it replaced with a 3D part. Or if there's a a valve or something, or if you were on an International Space Station and you needed something, you could print it out.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. Or if you were missing a limb, right? You could probably print out your actual—
GRAHAM CLULEY. Right.
JOE TIDY. I've seen some people do superhero-type limbs. So, there was a little girl, I remember, she got a 3D-printed Iron Man arm, which is pretty cool. Mm-hmm.
GRAHAM CLULEY. That is cool, isn't it? But it can go wrong. 3D printing can go rather badly wrong. If you've got a cheap and nasty 3D printer, It might break down or catch fire. I think the fire hazards are sometimes a problem. It can make a pretty awful smell. And it's not uncommon to encounter 3D-printed objects that haven't quite come out as planned.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. So if I wanted to replace a particular body part, I could ask my 3D printer to produce it, and then something unsatisfactory comes out the other end.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Large round eyes.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Sorry. You're just obsessed with my eye size at the moment. I guess I guess it could be a worse thing that you're focusing on.
JOE TIDY. I like this though. As a listener to your podcast, I like that there's a theme running throughout.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Exactly, right?
JOE TIDY. We have to give a reward for people that listen week in and week out. Little Easter eggs.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Exactly. It's like The Archers a bit.
GRAHAM CLULEY. So one of the things that can go wrong is if your nozzle— I don't know if you've ever had this problem. If your nozzle isn't properly aligned. Oh yeah, sure, sure. Then when it squirts out, when it extrudes the polymer, it may fail to attach itself to the existing model that's been made. And you end up finding out that you have basically a pile of plastic spaghetti.
JOE TIDY. Aha. Right.
CAROLE THERIAULT. So what was the word? What was the word?
GRAHAM CLULEY. The spaghetti detective.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Because most people do not have the time or the inclination to watch their 3D printer like a hawk for hours on end or even days. It can take days.
CAROLE THERIAULT. That's, yeah, that's, that was the point I was going to make. It can take— I, we made rockets actually. And, it took a very long time to make maybe 6-inch-sized rockets. And because all the different components are built together, so it's very slow. It's just layer by layer by layer. Yeah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, a service like the Spaghetti Detective, it uses a webcam and some cunning artificial intelligence. So it watches your printer and what it's doing. And if it detects that something has gone wrong, with the AI through the webcam. For instance, if it starts extruding spaghetti, the Spaghetti Detective will interrupt the print job, will stop it, and send you a text message or an email saying, you might want to, you know, you might want to try again with this, something's gone badly wrong. So it's very clever. And this Spaghetti Detective toolkit is open source. So if you've got the nous, you can set it up for yourself on a server, And off you go.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. Okay. It's clever, but whatever you've printed from, from what I'm hearing, it will already be ruined, right? So say you've done, you're doing something that's 8 inches tall. If you've done 3 inches and it starts screwing up, it stops it. You're gonna have to start again. But I suppose you don't have to wait till the whole thing is built.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Exactly. Better that you find that out on Tuesday than wait till Thursday.
JOE TIDY. Yeah. So you get like a 3-inch piece of rubbish instead of a 10-inch piece of rubbish.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I imagine you can probably remelt down the plastic as well.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I think you can. I'm just thinking about this. I imagine this doesn't work very well if you are trying to 3D print spaghetti because it'll keep warning you, hey, you're making spaghetti.
JOE TIDY. Well, I know. Yes, stop.
CAROLE THERIAULT. You need a Raspberry Pi with little nail scissors to, you know, cut it each time.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes. Anyway, the point I'm making is you've got to be a bit of a nerd to set up a server, to run this piece of software, to set up the webcam and go to all that effort. And so maybe you want to use a cloud-based service to do all of this for you, like thespaghettidetective.com.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Got you.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Which is run by a guy called Kenneth Yang.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Right.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, our friend Kenneth, he maintains the server, he tweaks the code, he keeps it secure so you don't have to. And you can have a certain number of prints watched per year for free. But many people probably we'll pay them a little bit of money in order to have this sort of surveillance going on, which is kind of handy. What could possibly go wrong? Well, last week, a Reddit user called OKRUB499—
JOE TIDY. Great username.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Which suggests to me 498 other people have chosen the OKRUB moniker before him. Okayrub499, he woke up, and he found on his 3D printer a message which had been printed out in 3D. So it's all sort of raised in the polymer. He hadn't set off a job. And it said, "TSD is not secure. I randomly connected. Sorry, had to inform you." Written in the plastic? Written in the plastic.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, really?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes. So raised up. So we will put a link in the show notes so everyone can see a photograph of this. Now, TSD is, of course, the Spaghetti Detective, and it turned out that the Spaghetti Detective contained a security vulnerability that allowed users to link to other users' 3D printers via this cloud-based service. So not if you had set up the Spaghetti Detective yourself, but if you'd used Kenneth's spaghettidetective.com service.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Ah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, friend of the show, Paul Ducklin, he wrote about this on the Naked Security blog. And he was actually pretty impressed with how thespaghettidetective.com responded to this. And he says, if you're looking for lessons to learn from how they responded, take note that he never said, we take your security seriously. He didn't excuse himself by saying, at least credit card numbers weren't affected. And he didn't downplay the bug because it was only present for 8 hours and apparently affected fewer than 100 people. So it wasn't the world's biggest problem. It wasn't huge. But actually, when you read— and again, we'll put in a link in the show notes so we can read the full analysis of what went wrong as posted on by the Spaghetti Detective on their site. It's really impressive because they're completely transparent. They say, they actually call it a stupid mistake. They say it was horrible. They offer their sincere apologies. They say, "We screwed up." Hallelujah.
JOE TIDY. By "we," he probably means me.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes.
JOE TIDY. 'Cause I can't imagine there's many people.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It is just him. It is actually. He actually says, "I screwed up." That's right.
JOE TIDY. Yeah. Right. That's refreshing, isn't it?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Can I read— Let me read it. It's really good.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. "I screwed up. It was the first security breach the Spaghetti Detective has had in two years of her existence. But it was an embarrassing one, and I can't forgive myself for." I like the way he's gendered the AI.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Isn't that lovely? I really like that.
JOE TIDY. Good old Kenneth. This reminds me, do you remember this story about the PewDiePie fan hackers?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes.
JOE TIDY. Who managed to take over some ports. I say some, about 50,000, I think it was, in the initial attack. And they got printers around the world to print out, "Subscribe to PewDiePie's." Do you remember that?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JOE TIDY. A guy calling himself Hacker Giraffe.
GRAHAM CLULEY. That's it. And PewDiePie was in a race, wasn't he? I think with some Bollywood YouTube channel.
JOE TIDY. It was, yeah. T-Series was the name. I know all this because I went to somewhere in the Midwest to interview the Hacker Giraffe's accomplice who carried out the hack. And it was such a strange and weird, interesting story.
CAROLE THERIAULT. As long as it wasn't your holiday. You're not that weird.
JOE TIDY. That would be fun. Sort of geek I am, I'd enjoy that. Not sure the wife and kids would enjoy it, but you know.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It would just be amazing that you had a wife and kids, Joe, if you wanted to do that kind of thing.
JOE TIDY. Yeah. No, but that was an amazing story. Yeah. I think they did about 50,000 printers in the first wave and then they did about another 150 in the second wave and then they went into hiding and got really scared. And now I talked to this guy who's really proud of it and, you know, he's tried to make me do a story sort of outing his identity many times and us sort of saying, mate, you know, just because it was a meme back then doesn't mean it's not a security issue. You might still be in trouble for this. Mm.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, well, obviously you shouldn't connect to other people's devices without their permission. You shouldn't do this kind of thing. But I think we can sort of turn a little blind eye to that on this occasion because it was— the vulnerability was only present for a short time.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, but I think we should also commend them for that, right? Commend— what are they called? The Spaghetti Detective.
JOE TIDY. The Spaghetti Detective.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, the Spaghetti Detective. But why is it founder of TSD? Oh, the Spaghetti Detective. Oh my God, I just got it. I was like, why the T? Why the T?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Are you still hunting for the Tiramisu Latta traffic warden?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, exactly. That's the real story, isn't it?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Joe, what have you got for us this week?
JOE TIDY. Well, I've been a little bit obsessed with cryptocurrency exchanges. And I did a story, well, everyone did this story, didn't they? About, I think it was last week or week before last about this $600 million hack of the cryptocurrency exchange service, the Poly Network, which in itself was an amazing story because of course all the money was stolen by the hacker who then proceeded to pay himself in Ethereum. And every time he paid himself little bits, he would write a note, which is publicly available to everyone. So he started by bragging about the hack and then he started saying, how can I launder this money? And then he changed tack and said, actually, it was all a security exercise. I'm gonna return it all. And he did, which is amazing in itself. But then of course, within a few days, you've got another hack of a Japanese cryptocurrency exchange called Liquid, and that's $100 million gone. And then I've just been looking into this and it's just an absolute mess. So there's this list I found on a website and I haven't verified these numbers, so I can't do the whole BBC thing. Well, I will do the whole BBC thing and say this is unverified currently. But I'm gonna put this all onto a, sort of pen to paper and try and write something on this. So I'm basically using you guys as a help for my article. So this is in 2020, there was one called AltBit, which had $70,000 hacked out of it. November 2019, South Korean one called Upbit, $51 million. Then in the same month, $500,000 was lost. Then there was one in Singapore called BitPoint, $28 million. And then in May that year, $40 million. And then of course there's the Coincheck one, $560 million worth hacked. And then there was, of course, the big one, which is one that's probably the most famous one, which is Mt. Gox, which is $460 million. But I didn't really know about this kind of problem until the $600 million recent story. And it is just incredible. Your mind boggles at how this can happen, because I've been speaking to loads of the people who are caught up in this, you know, the victims. And you often think, in the tech team, we kind of look at these stories and we think, oh, you know, does the average person care about this? Because these are kind of crypto bros who have lost a bit of money speculating and gambling in the crypto world. But then I spoke to this other person who said that their mom and dad, for example, had one bitcoin in the Liquid exchange, which they very nearly lost and they had to sell rapidly as a panic sell. And now they've lost loads of money on it. And that was going to be their kind of little retirement pot. So I just think it's amazing that these exchanges are custodians of so much money, yet they seem to be really badly secured.
CAROLE THERIAULT. But don't they have like the PR around cryptocurrency of it being completely safe has done a lot of harm, right?
JOE TIDY. Because I think so. If you look at the Liquid case, so they claim to be like, I think they have on their website, the most secure exchange in the world. And they said that all of our cryptocurrency is stored in cold storage, which means it's not directly linked to the internet. Yet now it appears, and we still are waiting to hear back from Liquid, so I don't know the full facts, but it appears that wasn't the case. And what I find amazing about this world, I don't know if you guys are into your crypto, but it's really hard to find people to speak about this in a kind of level-headed way. Because if you're an expert in crypto, then there's a good chance you're a kind of like crypto fan. So as a reporter, I find these stories so intimidating to do because you're sort of like dipping into a world that is almost cult-like in a sense.
GRAHAM CLULEY. There's a religious fervour, isn't there?
JOE TIDY. There is, there is.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It's like the crypto maniacs and the people who are very, very anti-crypto. And there's not many people straddling both sides.
JOE TIDY. Exactly.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I think the BBC's Crypto Queen kind of opened my eyes to that because you kind of got an idea of how far and wide people were believing that this is how they would get rich, that they were early to the game and they're gonna make a killing here.
JOE TIDY. Yeah, that was a great series actually.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes. Amazing. Amazing.
GRAHAM CLULEY. But, but I think you make a really good point, Jo, which is that actually many regular people now will have some element of cryptocurrency because of all the mania that has happened in recent years with it zooming up and other investments maybe not doing that with the likes of the late John McAfee, always touting cryptocurrencies. There will be many people who will have put away a little nest egg thinking, well, it's worth us chucking £20,000 or whatever it may be in there to see what happens.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. And let me, let me add something to that, actually. I think lots of people don't know how to get it out now and they'll be like, they'll get around to it. They'll get around to it. They'll get around to it. You know, it's probably going to still go up. It's a marvellous way where you can actually go and find nothing in there.
JOE TIDY. It is such a faff. The whole thing is such a faff. Buying crypto, I've bought a little bit in the past and then, you know, lost it for 5 years or whatever. And actually I recently found it and it's sort of 0.001 bitcoin. You're lucky. I don't really know what to do with it. You know, I'm sorry. And the funny thing is in my job, and it's probably the same for you guys as well, the only way to truly understand these things is to get involved and to use it. And, you know, buy things and move your money around and stuff. But yeah, it is quite hard. It's quite a kind of close-knit community, which is sort of like a closed community full of weirdos.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Let's just call a spade a spade. They're all nuts.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I tell you, if you're going around checking all these different cryptos and kind of putting your money in and out just to see how it all works, you should write it all down. I'd love— I mean, that's gold for people, right? To understand what they're getting involved in.
JOE TIDY. Well, there was a brilliant piece that my colleague did actually in this similar vein. We had our one of our bosses leave to go into somewhere else. He was the head of tech at BBC. So we all chipped in and got him an NFT, a non-fungible token, just for a laugh. And it was delegated to my colleague Christina to actually go and buy the blooming thing. And she must have spent 3 weeks trying to, first of all, buy this. Was it Ethereum or Ether? I can't remember what the cryptocurrency was, but the faff she went through to get this, to actually secure this NFT, this useless bit of digital And then she wrote a piece about it and it was great. It's that sort of thing that shows you—
GRAHAM CLULEY. NFTs, come on.
JOE TIDY. The NFT world is another just crazy, crazy thing that it's hard to wrap your head around. It really is. The money that— did you see that about Beeple, this digital artist who made $70 million, I think it was?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah. Insane.
JOE TIDY. In the wrong line of work.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Carole, what have you got for us this week?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Something very light and weird. So— Okay. Okay, so we're gonna start with celebrity divorces. And we all know that there's been many contentious ones in the past. So Hulk and Linda Hogan, 2007.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Sorry, I thought you said celebrity. You're starting with Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan's a celebrity. That's how high we're going, are we?
JOE TIDY. I thought you meant the Incredible Hulk. I was like, is that a real thing?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Paul McCartney and Heather Mills, Graham?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, yes.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah? $50 million? And Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, started in 2016. Apparently, it's not even settled yet and costing millions and millions and millions. Oh, yeah. The celebs that didn't follow suit are the so sweet and earnest you want to vomit— Can you guess who I'm talking about?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, you're talking about— Come on.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Who am I talking about?
GRAHAM CLULEY. You're talking about Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow. Yes!
JOE TIDY. Oh, the conscious uncoupling.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes, the uncoupling. The conscious uncoupling.
JOE TIDY. Exactly.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Bless them.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Bless them.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I wonder who gets to keep the candles.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, you take the patchouli, I'll take the lavender. Um, but this is kind of unusual in tech billionaire land. According to The Times, tech billionaires have typically divorced very quietly behind closed doors, and it's rare that they're willing to trade blows in a public courtroom and expose the complex web of their personal finances. Makes sense. But they do happen. And just this week in tech and mainstream media, it's all abuzz with this high-stake tech divorce. So in the left corner, we have robotics guru and startup entrepreneur Scott Hassan. He was one of the code writers for the original search algorithm for Google known as BackRub back in '96. He's kind of known as the third unofficial Google founder in some circles, along with Larry Page and Sergey Brin.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Mm-hmm.
CAROLE THERIAULT. And he's also known for creating those screens on wheels. You know, before we all had phones in our pockets, you'd have like a video conferencing, and there'd be a screen on a long kind of neck, and it had like a— almost like those IVs in hospitals. It looked like an IV, but it had a screen on it.
GRAHAM CLULEY. What are you talking about?
JOE TIDY. Oh yeah, that you wheel around in a school or whatever.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah!
JOE TIDY. Oh, so he made that?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, he made that. It's apparently gone bust now.
JOE TIDY. So he's done like an incredible bit of sort of coding. And then a really basic bit of metal hardware.
GRAHAM CLULEY. So you're talking about a television? What is this? What is this thing?
CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't know how you call it. They had them even in the White House. They were basically for virtual meetings before we all could Zoomify and whatever. And it's a screen you bring in, like video conferencing, but it would be keeping at the height of the person. So you could bring it down to be chair height or standing up, so you could have a coffee meeting. I don't know. I'll finish this. Anyway, it went bust. It went bust.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay.
CAROLE THERIAULT. So that's in the left corner. In the other corner, we have Allison Hoon, a senior research fellow at Stanford University Robotics Laboratory. So also a smart cookie. And they were married for 13 years. And for the last 7, they've been trying to divorce. And the problem is, is they don't agree on the settlement. And so this week, this Tuesday, they've gone to trial and it's proving to be a popcorn-eating worthy affair. Because it's been open to the public, and some allegations have been a little bit surprising.
JOE TIDY. Such as— you can't say things like that.
CAROLE THERIAULT. The New York Post. The New York Post. I'm getting there, I'm getting it.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, that quality publication. Yes, the New York Post.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, you know, because I can validate from other news sources. So, but $1.8 billion is their estate. $1.8 billion.
JOE TIDY. I've never even heard of this guy.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, and Hassan wants to give her a disputed fraction of this. So he basically, they have a company, he has a company with lots of shares in it. And the accusation is basically tried to dump the company for a pittance and a tax dodge and a divorce shrinking of the settlement.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Right.
CAROLE THERIAULT. And she's like, dude, you should be going according to law and look after your shareholders. So you know, an age-old fight of the blisteringly rich, right? So, we're talking, no one's going hungry here, right? On any side. But it's been rough waters for quite a while now. Like, even at the beginning, apparently, when he planned to divorce, he did it by text. So, it's probably safe to say this was not a conscious uncoupling.
JOE TIDY. At least he didn't wheel in some screen and do a teleconference.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Welcome to Duncansville, population you.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Can I butt in here with a personal anecdote?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Sure.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Right. I was once dating a young lady. Okay. And I was—
JOE TIDY. you're quite old now as a young man, right?
CAROLE THERIAULT. I just want to make sure.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I was probably in my early 30s and she was a similar age as well. And basically she kind of disappeared, right? I thought she's blanking me. She's not replying. She's ghosting me or whatever. Clearly she doesn't want to be with me. She's not returning my calls, she's not returning my texts, etc., etc. So it happened for a couple of weeks and I thought, oh, clearly I've been dumped. You know, it would have been nice to have known, but clearly I've been dumped. And so I thought, just to be all upfront about things, sent her a text basically, right, saying it's over, right? Fair enough, you know, look after yourself, etc. And then she got really, really arsey. And she got arsey because she said, well, there was no way, how dare you dump me via text. It's like, I've been trying to communicate with you for weeks, you know.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Maybe she was afraid of being dumped, so she was just ghosting you.
JOE TIDY. Yeah, she, she wanted—
GRAHAM CLULEY. well, she claimed, she claimed she was on holiday in Scotland, and apparently mobile phones don't work up there.
CAROLE THERIAULT. And this was 20— this was 20-some years ago, right?
GRAHAM CLULEY. 20-odd years ago. But I just, you know— but I've since, I've since been characterized as someone who dumped someone by text. And maybe this this tech mogul guy was in a similar scenario.
CAROLE THERIAULT. You weren't married to her for 13 years.
GRAHAM CLULEY. No, I wasn't. No, that's true. I'd probably been dating her about 5 weeks. Yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah.
JOE TIDY. So you're saying it's all about the context. We don't know the context.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It is all about the context, yes.
JOE TIDY. We don't know if he just sent an emoji or a GIF. Who knows?
GRAHAM CLULEY. I didn't send her an emoji of a dumper truck or something like that. Yeah, just a big shit.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, now what I thought— I didn't expect to get you to open up like that, Graham, so I'm very thrilled. I thought you'd be going, why the heck are we talking about this? I don't understand.
JOE TIDY. It's her loss, Graham. It's her loss.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Maybe it is.
JOE TIDY. Plenty of fish in the sea.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, Hassan was presumably so enraged by the fiscal demands from the other side, decided to do something that some might call dumb. And it involves computers. So ipso facto, Smashing Security worthy, right?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Excellent.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Hassan has admitted that earlier this year in February, when everything was very fraught with respect to the divorce, and maybe he couldn't take it anymore. Maybe his meditation teacher quit. He came to the decision it'd be a good idea to create and make a website live, cleverly entitled AllisonHoon.com, his wife's full name.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, right.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I've put a screenshot of the website into our document.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now.
JOE TIDY. So, oh, okay. Alison. Yeah, got it.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay. So what we have just for our listeners here, you have like contact information for Alison, right? Her LinkedIn, her Twitter, her Facebook. You have a list of a number of articles that she's written, but kind of a random selection. And then you have some lawsuits. Oh, yes. And apparently these connected over to a Google Drive where you could find all kinds of information on these lawsuits, what was going on. And these are from her past. And they're not necessarily— they're like involving sexual harassment and all kinds of ugly stuff. Now, this is the problem. He did a good job of hiding his fingerprints, right? His fingerprints were all over this. And she had no idea this was live. So this went out in February, and Hoon only discovered it on August 5th. I knew you would do that, Graham, because you can't believe that people don't Google their names every day, can you?
GRAHAM CLULEY. But every hour or so.
JOE TIDY. I mean, surely you set up a Google alert.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Exactly. There must be like Google detectives or something.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I thought she worked in technology. I thought she— I mean, and he apparently created the algorithm for Google. Maybe he's— oh, maybe he wrote the algorithm. So it would pop this up at the top of the results or something.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Or not pop up on any results. Yeah.
JOE TIDY. Yeah. Hide it.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, yes. So if anyone was looking for information on her, maybe because she was looking for a job or if she was starting a new relationship, they would end up on this page and they'd think, oh, this looks—
CAROLE THERIAULT. oh boy. Yeah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. She looks rather litigious. She wrote an article in 1999 for Salon.com called Penguin Wiggles Its Flippers.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Did someone just fall over?
JOE TIDY. I've just spilt my tea.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh no!
CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh no!
JOE TIDY. Back in a sec.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It's okay. It's a crisis.
CAROLE THERIAULT. It is a crisis. I've done this and ruined laptops.
JOE TIDY. I'm back. I'm back. So just to describe to the listener what I'm dealing with here. I'm actually broadcasting from my wife's knicker drawer. Because the kids are being ultra loud downstairs. So what's happened is I've hung up a shirt in the cupboard I'm in. And it's fallen down, hit my tea, and now I'm standing in a pool of tea. So it's going well.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, at least your laptop isn't though.
JOE TIDY. The laptop's good. We're okay. I can still see alisonhoon.com.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, phew!
JOE TIDY. So anyway, this sounds ill-advised, this website. I don't know about you guys, but it feels—
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, even if he's covered his tracks, he is the person who is having this multi-year divorce disagreement with—
JOE TIDY. Yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Can you read the disclaimer at the top, Grim? Can you read the disclaimer at the top?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay, let's look at this. Website contains links to certain public information related to Alison Hoon. It is not sponsored by or affiliated with Alison Hoon. The material and information contained on this website is for general information purposes only. You should not rely upon the material and information on the website as a basis for making any business, legal, or any other decisions. Now on with the dirt. I added that last bit.
CAROLE THERIAULT. So what, do lawyers go, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead, do that, just add this at the top?
JOE TIDY. Yeah, looks good to me.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Cut and paste this at the top, and you're good to go, my sunshine. Looks so weird. Um, so apparently when she found out about it, she told her lawyer. Lawyer called in the forensic pros, who apparently failed to find anything. But Hoon, no idiot, did. So she told The Post, I stayed up all night and discovered a back door that Scott inadvertently did not close. I was able to determine that the Google Drive site which contained all the lawsuit documents, was registered by Scott Wendell— Scott's middle name.
JOE TIDY. Oh, that sounds so basic.
CAROLE THERIAULT. We didn't use his last name, but yeah. Uh, the email contact has Hassan in it. And to add salt to the wound, she's quoted saying, so the genius of Silicon Valley was exposed by his wife using her technical knowledge. Poetic justice. So it sounds bitter. It does sound bitter, doesn't I think this is much cleverer than you imagine.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I think he has deliberately done this and acted like an utter, utter buffoon in order to devalue his company through his technical incompetence. Oh!
JOE TIDY. He's playing a lot of games.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Which means she ends up— Yes, she ends up with less money. She's fallen for it.
JOE TIDY. Wow.
CAROLE THERIAULT. That's why they're in court right now. That's what she's suing him for, for actually doing that. Because there's all these reports of him, like, once the divorce started, or once they separated, he stopped showing up at the office on time. He missed meetings. Missed meetings all the time. Like, he was basically just, you know, running it to the ground is the argument.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Now he's proven he's a complete twit.
CAROLE THERIAULT. So when asked if he put up the site, Hassan admitted, uh, I did, but I have taken it down. It came together in a moment of frustration when I felt Allison and her attorney were telling one-sided stories to the press. This is like the robotics god, apparently. I thought aggregating publicly available information without commenting or editorializing would help. It only ended making our dispute more public and tense, which was never what I intended.
JOE TIDY. Who hasn't made a website about their partner when they're angry?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, I don't know if either of you've been to the website sarahcan't-receive-text-messages-while-she's-in-scotland.com.
CAROLE THERIAULT. But if you do, I've got—
GRAHAM CLULEY. After 20 years, I still have a variety of information about her.
JOE TIDY. You need to work on your SEO there.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Word of the wise, don't post shit on sites. That's basically it.
JOE TIDY. Especially if you've got a very intelligent ex-wife.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, and a lot of fricking money.
JOE TIDY. Yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. You know, I mean, I do feel for them. They're probably going to end up only with like, I don't know, $500 million each after all this.
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GRAHAM CLULEY. And welcome back, and you join us at our favorite part of the show, the part of the show that we like to call Pick of the Week.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Pick of the Week.
JOE TIDY. Pick of the Week.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they like. Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an map, whatever they wish. Doesn't have to be security related necessarily.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Better not be.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, if you've been listening to recent episodes of Smashing Security, I've been discussing one of my favorite TV shows, which is of course Columbo, one of the greatest TV shows of all time. And that got me thinking quite a lot about the TV crime genre and having plowed my way through quite a lot of Columbo, I thought, what else did I used to like? And I'm gonna give you another one right now, which some people may not have seen. It is, of course, Cracker.
JOE TIDY. Ah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Do you remember Cracker? Joe, you're probably too young for Cracker.
JOE TIDY. Rings a bell.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, I love Cracker.
JOE TIDY. Was that Robbie Coltrane?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, Robbie Coltrane.
JOE TIDY. It's Robbie Coltrane. Yeah.
GRAHAM CLULEY. It came out in the early 1990s. British gritty TV crime series set in Manchester. Robbie Coltrane is a thoroughly unpleasant—
JOE TIDY. Yes.
GRAHAM CLULEY. But still genius criminal psychologist, or cracker, who is assisting the police force.
CAROLE THERIAULT. He's like the opposite of Columbo, isn't he? He's like the dirty living Columbo.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, I mean, Columbo is quite shabby and shambolic.
CAROLE THERIAULT. No, no, exactly. They both wear the same trench coats. They kind of have a similar feel about them.
GRAHAM CLULEY. But Columbo, you kind of want to give him a hug and curl up with him and spoon him, whereas you don't want to do that with Robbie Coltrane as Cracker.
JOE TIDY. Is Columbo the one that always says, "And one other thing," or something at the end? One more thing, right?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, yeah. Joe, Joe, I just can't. I've tried.
JOE TIDY. You only brought this thing in to do your impression, didn't you?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, I did.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, Joe. I just need a little loose ends, you see. I've been on the BBC News website, a couple of things. I just don't understand. I'm sure you can explain it to me. Columbo's brilliant, but Cracker is somewhat different. Cracker— I mean, both are brilliant in their own way, but they're very different. Cracker has a great cast, including Ricky Tomlinson, Geraldine Somerville, Robert Carlyle, Christopher Eccleston, who has one of the most truly memorable moments in TV drama history. I'm not going to give you any spoilers. OMG. What happens at the beginning of Series 2 of Cracker? Unbelievable.
CAROLE THERIAULT. What, 1990? When would it start?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Some people will be watching this based on my recommendation.
CAROLE THERIAULT. That's very true. And lucky them. Lucky them.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes. And so I don't want to spoil it for them. In the very first episode of Cracker, do you know who appears?
CAROLE THERIAULT. No.
GRAHAM CLULEY. A man being investigated is Adrian Dunbar. Do you know who Adrian Dunbar is?
CAROLE THERIAULT. No.
JOE TIDY. No.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, Joseph, Jesus, Mary, and a donkey.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, from that?
GRAHAM CLULEY. He's the guy who became Ted Hastings from Line of Duty.
JOE TIDY. Oh!
CAROLE THERIAULT. It's Jesus, Mary, Joseph, and the wee donkey.
JOE TIDY. Now we're cooking on gas.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, that's right.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, here's some great lines. Great lines.
JOE TIDY. Whoever's writing them is brilliant. Now we're sucking on diesel, is it?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, that's right. Love it. That's the— yeah, so good.
GRAHAM CLULEY. So good. So, I have been watching Cracker on BritBox, which has lots of old classic TV. Which is the kind of thing I like. There was a US remake of Cracker called Fitz, which I've never seen. I imagine is terrible. So go and check out the original Cracker. It is quite brilliant. And that is my pick of the week.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I approve, Graham. Good pick of the week.
JOE TIDY. Thank you very much.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Long in the tooth, but yeah, if you like gritty—
GRAHAM CLULEY. It is long in the tooth.
CAROLE THERIAULT. —ditty detective stuff.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Very, very good TV drama.
JOE TIDY. Joe, what's your pick of the week? Well, mine's a bit unusual, The thing that I've been sort of obsessing over with lately is I've got a wildlife camera, one of these ones that you stick in the corner of your garden and then it's got a sensor, a load of lasers or whatever. And then whenever an animal that's big enough goes past it or near it, it turns on. And I've managed to get this little fox that we've got that comes and visits our garden. You can tell how exciting my life is, by the way. But the thing I've been really trying to get is this rat. There's a rat living somewhere in our garden which we haven't managed to capture. I've seen it once at like 6 in the morning, came down for a cup of tea. There it was sitting on the patio, just, you know, chilling out. But I still haven't got it. And it's a sort of cat and mouse or rat and mouse, if you like, game between me and this, this creature, which is driving me mad. I've caught— I've got the back of it. So in one footage, one little video I've got, like for about half a second, you just see the back of this thing running across the camera. Camera. But that is the thing that I'm obsessed with. And if you've got a garden, and if you've got— I think it was like £50 or £60 or something— I strongly recommend these because they are quite good fun, especially with kids as well. My little boys will wake up in the morning, we'll go and see what the camera got overnight. They'll normally be quite— oh, that's gorgeous. I'll be more excited than they are. But, uh, yeah, we've got a hedgehog, we've got a fox, and we have got the back of a rat.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Um, now tell me, what are you, uh— so let's say the rat comes over and kind of goes, you know, gives you the finger or something, right? Flips you the V's, something like that, on the camera.
JOE TIDY. What do you do then? Then I'll flip the V's back. I'll sit out all night long, wait, wait to return the favor. Um, I don't know what we've talked about. You see, this all came about because my wife said, can you do something about the rat? Yeah, I think she meant, can you put a rat trap out? I don't think she meant, can you get some footage of it on a wildlife camera? Yeah, so there's been a bit of a disagreement in the household, but I think ultimately that's what she wants. But I think if we, if we can name it. And if we can see it, then we can be friends with it. It can be our pet.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Do you know how much— you know how big their litters are and how often?
JOE TIDY. No, go on.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I think it's something like every 8 or 12 weeks, and they can have 10 to 12 or something. Yeah.
JOE TIDY. So you're telling me there isn't just one rat? Well, we—
CAROLE THERIAULT. I had a rat, and I— look, I'm obviously on the other side. I'm kind of with your wife on this, right? I saw the rat and I was like, I have no problem with the rat. I do not want him living in our garden because we have a walled garden as well, right? I don't want him to go, this is perfect We've got bird food, we've got like this watering bag, everything we need. This is awesome, right? And like, come on, honey, come on, right? And then having like thousands of babies everywhere because they just nest and they nest.
JOE TIDY. Yeah, I may have compounded the issue because I put— I had— I decided to, uh, build a little pond. I got a big plant pot which is left over from previous nonsense, and I was bored in February in height of lockdown, and I thought, right, I'm going to bury this in the garden, fill it with water, and I've suddenly got a lovely wildlife pond. It hasn't worked that way. It's— some of the stuff that grows in there, it's like what you'd see in Prometheus. It's, it's horrendous. Have you ever seen a, um, what's it called now, a, uh, a long-tailed rat larvae? Oh, look at— oh, the way they swim, they are otherworldly and terrifying.
CAROLE THERIAULT. So you've got like a kind of swamp because you're not doing anything with the water? You don't have the right reeds to clean the water or anything?
JOE TIDY. Well, I put the reeds in, but then I accidentally kicked a football in and decapitated the pond wildlife. I love this.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I thought you were going to tell us that you'd caught the rat waterskiing across your pond.
JOE TIDY. You know, that's the dream. Yeah. Well, I put it on YouTube, it goes viral, I become a multimillionaire. Yep. Influencer, you know. Make it an NFT. Exactly. Just do a couple of conferences a year, and that's me. Done.
CAROLE THERIAULT. I can look at my rats all day. I can make a house for them, a huge house in my garden.
JOE TIDY. Teach him how to cook. Yeah! Disney reference there, Ratatouille.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Don't you got that?
GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, yeah. Great, great movie. One of my favorites. Carole, what's your pick of the week?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, you know my penchant for audio dramas. Well, this week I have yet another one, a glorious one called Keeping the Wolf Out. It's a BBC full-cast detective series set in Budapest, 1964. So, 8 years after the Hungarian uprising, when people revolted against Soviet rule, The country is, like, still at this time, 1964, it's still fraught with political intensity, paranoia about who's listening in on who, because any dissidence is, you know, it's pretty risky. So in Keeping the Wolf Out, we follow a special investigator, so similar to your Cracker, but a younger guy called Bertalan Lazar and his spy wife, Renzsiska. And boy, they have— they face a lot of turbulent times. And they try to find out the truth and unmask the true baddies as part of their jobs. But it's not always easy because a lot of people are doing— are higher up and up to no good. But the gorgeous thing is they come together at night and they kind of commune and share over dinner or— and the relationship between them is just phenomenal. It just oozes with character. They're sassy, funny, sexy, vulnerable. It's just great. You'd love it, Graham. Joe, I can tell you'd love it. If you were going, "Cracker sounds good," this is just— and it's It's audio.
JOE TIDY. At any point, do the detectives check whether or not a 3D printer is spewing out spaghetti?
CAROLE THERIAULT. No, 'cause it's 1964. Oh, they didn't check that. So I don't even think they know. They may not even know about spaghetti back then, I don't know. No tiramisù latte?
GRAHAM CLULEY. No traffic wardens? No, nothing like that.
JOE TIDY. Sounds good. So is it a kind of an acted-out drama type thing?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, full cast, full cast. So it's written by Philip Palmer.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Don't you just love the BBC for making things like that?
CAROLE THERIAULT. 100%. I think it's just so good.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I love the BBC. The BBC makes so much incredible, brilliant stuff.
JOE TIDY. And are you saying that because I'm here? No, I think—
CAROLE THERIAULT. I mean, I mean it too, actually. I'm a huge BBC fan. Huge.
GRAHAM CLULEY. BBC gets slagged off by so many people, and it's just—
CAROLE THERIAULT. and you don't deserve it. Like, I don't know what they want. What's better?
JOE TIDY. When they announced BBC Sounds, this, this app that you can download in the UK. Yeah. Um, I was like, oh, not another app. We don't need another app, BBC. What are you doing? And it's actually, you know, I'm not just saying this because I work for the BBC, because, you know, BBC's got problems, but what a stroke of genius. I use that app. All my family and friends use the app every day. It is, it is really good. And you're right, I think they've invested massively in, in audio. They've seen the podcasts and dramas like the one you're talking about are massive. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I mean, it's paying off. Obviously there's always going to be the hashtag defund the BBC. Beeb. That will always be there, and they may win one day. Hopefully not. But yeah, it's really nice to see when they do something like that.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Um, so you can find it on BBC Sounds. I also saw it available on Amazon, so look where you typically find your audiobooks and you may be able to find it. So it's called Keeping the Wolf Out and by Philip Palmer, and it's awesome. Brilliant. Great. That sounds good.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, that just about wraps it up for this week. Joe, I'm sure lots of our listeners would love to follow you online and find out what you're up to. What's the best way for people to that?
JOE TIDY. Well, I don't know why you'd want to, but if you were that way inclined, Twitter's the one that I use the most. It's just @JoeTidy.
GRAHAM CLULEY. You can follow us on Twitter @SmashingSecurity, no G, Twitter won't allow us to have a G. And we're also running a Smashing Security subreddit as well. And to make sure you never miss another episode of the show, follow Smashing Security in your favorite podcast app, such as Apple Podcasts, Overcast, and Google Podcasts.
CAROLE THERIAULT. And huge thank you to this episode's sponsors, Atevo Networks and 1Password, and to our wonderful Patreon community. It's thanks to them all that this show is free. For episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest lists, and the entire back catalog of more than 239 episodes, check out smashingsecurity.com.
GRAHAM CLULEY. Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye.
JOE TIDY. Bye.
CAROLE THERIAULT. Bye-bye. Joe, can I ask you something? Yeah. Your name's Tidy. Yeah. Are you?
JOE TIDY. Yes. I think I'm quite neat. I'm quite tidy. I'm not sort of clean.
GRAHAM CLULEY. I don't think she's asking about manscaping. Was it back sack and crack?
CAROLE THERIAULT. Hello peeps, it's Carole Theriault here. I have two things for you this week. One, a very sweet review from Ninov196600 who writes, discovered the Smashing Security a few weeks ago, already addicted. I love it. Keep them coming. We will, Ninov. You have quite a big back catalog. If you miss the sound of our voices in between each new show. Now, an announcement. Graham and I have been a bit remiss about putting up some unique content onto Patreon. And what we would like to know is, what would you guys like to know? Would you like us to focus on a specific topic? Would you like to ask us questions about how we got to where we are or what we do? Do you want to ask Graham his most embarrassing story? I mean, the choice is yours. And the wilder the better, I say. And don't worry, even if you don't support Patreon, it will come out eventually on this feed. We like free content for everybody if we can. Tweet us, email us, and let us know what you would like to know, 'cause after all, all we want to do is make you happy. See you next week.
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