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368: Gary Barlow, and a scam turns deadly

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April 18, 2024
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Take That's Gary Barlow chats up a pizza-slinging granny from Essex via Facebook, or does he? And a scam takes a sinister turn - for both the person being scammed and an innocent participant - in Ohio.

All this and more is discussed in the latest edition of the "Smashing Security" podcast by cybersecurity veterans Graham Cluley and Carole Theriault.

Warning: This podcast may contain nuts, adult themes, and rude language.

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Transcript +

This transcript was generated automatically, and has not been manually verified. It may contain errors and omissions. In particular, speaker labels, proper nouns, and attributions may be incorrect. Treat it as a helpful guide rather than a verbatim record — for the real thing, give the episode a listen.

GRAHAM CLULEY. In my early 20s, people used to say, you know, you look a bit like Leonardo DiCaprio.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Shut up. Who said that? People that could see? People that weren't blind?

GRAHAM CLULEY. People with eyes used to say, yeah.

CAROLE THERIAULT. People with eyes.

GRAHAM CLULEY. It wasn't the woman from the Lionel Richie Hello video.

CAROLE THERIAULT. But they have very small eyes and maybe they were looking directly into the sun.

UNKNOWN. Smashing Security. Episode 368: Gary Barlow and a Scam Turns Deadly with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley. Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security Episode 368. My name's Graham Cluley.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And I'm Carole Theriault.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And Carole, thank you for joining us. You are far overseas on a secret mission at the moment, aren't you?

CAROLE THERIAULT. I am very much so. So that means we should just get going so I can go back to doing my secret mission stuff.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Fair enough.

CAROLE THERIAULT. But before we kick off, let's thank this week's wonderful sponsors, Collide, KiteWorks, and Vanta. It's their support that helps us give you this show for free. Now, coming up on today's show, Graham, what do you got?

GRAHAM CLULEY. I'm going to be saying, take that, to romance scammers.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And I'm going to head to Ohio and see what can go really wrong when... All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Now, chums, chums, specifically you, Carole, because you're the only person who can answer this question, who's on the show today. Do you have a celebrity lookalike?

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, but I used to be told fairly often that I looked, I can't remember, Linda Carter, the Wonder Woman girl.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Wonder Woman. That's right. Well done. Because I have asked you this question before, 4 years ago, when we had Garry Kasparov on the show, and you said Wonder Woman, Lynda Carter. So—

CAROLE THERIAULT. I'm not a liar.

GRAHAM CLULEY. You're not a liar. We ran your picture through an app which suggested Courteney Cox was your celebrity lookalike.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, I forgot that.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I was compared to Henry Kissinger or Larry the Cable Guy.

CAROLE THERIAULT. One of them is much closer than the other. That's all I'm going to say.

GRAHAM CLULEY. But in my youth, I remember in my early 20s, there are two famous people who people used to say, you know, you look a bit like, you look a bit like Leonardo DiCaprio.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Shut up.

GRAHAM CLULEY. People used to say that.

CAROLE THERIAULT. People that could see? People that weren't blind?

GRAHAM CLULEY. People, people with eyes used to say, yeah.

CAROLE THERIAULT. People with eyes.

GRAHAM CLULEY. It wasn't the woman from the Lionel Richie Hello video who said I look like.

CAROLE THERIAULT. But they have very small eyes and maybe they were looking directly into the sun.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Leonardo DiCaprio, they used to say. And the other person who used to say was British singer Gary Barlow.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, he's the Take That guy, isn't he?

GRAHAM CLULEY. He's the Take That guy. Now, some listeners in America may not know who Gary Barlow is.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, they do.

GRAHAM CLULEY. No, you'd be surprised. I've done my research, Carole. Take That, never as popular over there as they were in the UK and the rest of the world. Because over here, Gary Barlow and Take That are really famous. Now, some Americans, they've heard of that song Back for Good, but that's really about it. They may not know.

CAROLE THERIAULT. He did loads of shows though, like the X Factor things, things like that.

GRAHAM CLULEY. UK versions of Ikea. UK versions. He's not Paula Abdul. Oh, right. He's not Simon Cowell. He didn't go over to America to do them. No. So, for those who aren't in the know, he's like a Poundland Elton John. He's a—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, that's cruel.

GRAHAM CLULEY. No, because he—

CAROLE THERIAULT. He's a really talented guy.

GRAHAM CLULEY. He is a really talented guy, but he's not Elton John, is he? But he's a songwriter. He plays the piano. He's a human wind machine. He was a frontman of this boy band Take That for years and years. I think he still is, which has had number one records around the world, but not really very much in America. He's popular and successful. He's done all right for himself.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Hey, but the two of you out there that don't know about Gary Barlow, hope you're enjoying this.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, now everyone knows what I look like. Leonardo DiCaprio mixed with Gary Barlow.

CAROLE THERIAULT. That's exactly what you look like.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And we all knew Gary Barlow's had a happy private life, three kids, been married to one of his backing dancers for nearly 25 years. And it seemed like everything was tickety-boo, but no, no, no. It turns out that Gary Barlow might be a philanderer. Because there is a 62-year-old pizza-slinging granny from Essex.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Her name is Janet Smith. She works in a pizza parlour.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Right.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And she says that she got into a saucy romantic conversation with Gary Barlow, Gazza, Gazza Bazza. I started talking to this chap who I thought was Gary Barlow, first of all, because I went on Facebook and his name come up, so I added him. Why wouldn't you?

CAROLE THERIAULT. You know, I'm getting on in years and, you know, I'd like to think I could turn a few heads.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, she says that she added Gary as a friend on Facebook. And Gary replied to her. He said—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Gazza.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Gazza Bazza. He said, hey, he said, I was going through my likes and comments. I don't know how Gary pronounces that.

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, please don't do that.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I was going through my likes and comments, he said, and my heart chose you and your profile really attracted me. So I decided to get this private account just to text my fan. Because my manager has access to my official account, hope you can keep this a secret between the two of us. This was the initial, "Hi, how are you?" from Gary Barlow himself to the granny who works in the pizza parlour in Colchester, Essex.

CAROLE THERIAULT. So, okay, we all know that I don't manage a social profile with any skill. Or, right? We all know that. Correct. Okay.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Very much so.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I wonder if this is really the best way to open up a conversation with someone. You know, it just seems a bit strong because you'd have to have a lot of faith in your profile being pretty awesome to capture the likes of Gazza Bazza.

GRAHAM CLULEY. You know, I, like I said, there are those of us who've been hit by the beauty stick. As we fell out of the tree and, you know, have fallen—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Hit really hard.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Gorgeous. Some of us are just put in this position where we can do this. And so this Barlow chap bombarded Granny Janet with compliments, telling her that he had split up from his wife and that he had a secret. He had a secret that he wanted to share with Janet. Janet and Gary Barlow started texting every day, sometimes from 9 o'clock in the morning till 3 o'clock in the morning, which is obviously— yes, yes. I don't know when she was making pizzas.

CAROLE THERIAULT. She's making pizzas, sleeping for a few hours. She's like, I haven't showered in weeks.

GRAHAM CLULEY. But I carried on, and he was saying that I've got rehearsals now, I'll text you later. I believe in God, my marriage is broke up. I've got a lot of music. I'm a very busy person. And then he would come back on and all I kept questioning is, I'm sure you're not Gary Barlow.

So in a long string of messages, Gary Barlow was telling her how he loved her and praised her dancing videos because she'd posted a few videos up on Facebook of her doing little jigs around the place, maybe to some of their songs. Could it be Magic? And Shine, that was one of theirs, wasn't it?

CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't know. I don't really know Take That.

GRAHAM CLULEY. You don't know Take That? Okay. All right.

But every now and then, Gary would say, oh, I've got to dash off because he had an important meeting or to be practising for a concert. And Janet told the Daily Mail, who she was recounting this story to, she said to them, the words were really posh. He said, I'm in a meeting now. And I'm practising for a concert. Now, I don't know what's posh about those words, but she says that was posh talk.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, it depends where Janet lives and who her neighbours are. But maybe she lives in an area where people—

GRAHAM CLULEY. Don't have meetings or don't practise for concerts, perhaps. Right.

And Gary was replying to her. He said, by the way, I hope you're not a journalist. I have to be careful, he said.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I thought you read my profile, Gazza.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I hope you're not posing as a fan. He said, I have to be careful because I've been hurt several times from people out there who are actually journalists, pretend to be fans and end up faking stories about me. And Janet assured him that she was a genuine fan of his.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, 100% not a journalist. I'll keep this between us, Gazza. Love you too.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So last month in March, Janet got really excited about her budding new romance and she couldn't resist any longer. And so she pressed the button to make an audio call to Gary late one night.

CAROLE THERIAULT. You meant video call, didn't you?

GRAHAM CLULEY. No, an audio call. It was an audio call that she tried. Gary didn't answer.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, right, because they've only been texting so far.

GRAHAM CLULEY. They've only been texting so far.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, with you.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And Gary's message back: Don't be so fast, woman. With time, you'll know me very well. I told you about calling me. My management are monitoring me, so just text me.

Instead. First of all, I did think it might have been him. There was a picture, but he didn't have many friends on there. But he started saying things, and I kept saying to him, are you Gary Barlow? Are you Gary Barlow? He said, yes, I am, and if you think I'm not, stop texting.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I'm feeling there's a little pink flag now, just a little bit of a tinge of red, maybe a tinge of red. Blushing.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So Janet has also got a little bit of a blush about her. She started to get suspicious and she realized the man she was speaking to couldn't be the real Gary Barlow.

As she told the newspaper, "Gary Barlow would not talk to someone like me. He's too famous," she said. "I just thought, this isn't Gary Barlow." So she was actually smart, right? She's a smart woman, Janet.

CAROLE THERIAULT. She saw the red flag, the blushy flag. Yep.

GRAHAM CLULEY. She said, "You're not the real one." And he kept on replying. He said, 'You're lovely, you're kind, but yes, I am Gary Barlow.' And eventually Janet managed to persuade this person who was posing as Gary Barlow to reveal the truth. He was texting me to about 3 in the morning, and I said to him, 'I want the truth now. I don't think you're Gary Barlow.' And he kept saying, 'I am.' I said— he said, 'Can I have your WhatsApp number?' So I said, 'You can have my WhatsApp number if you tell me who you are,' because he kept saying he had a secret, but he wouldn't tell me the secret because he had to learn to trust me. And the secret was he wasn't Gary Barlow.

He was a chap based in Nigeria who he said was a big fan, an admirer of Gary Barlow, and liked singing and liked his songs and had fallen in love with Janet and wanted to help out his family and just needed some money to get some food in Nigeria.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Jesus.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So I can see his point, but it's wrong what he's done because he's intimidated Gary Barlow. And how many people are going to be vulnerable? A bit like me. I'm very, very vulnerable and I haven't sent him money, but I have felt guilty because he's poor.

He asked me to download something. What would cost for a card download? They tell me how much it'd be so I can go and see him. And I can go and see his concerts. But I didn't do it. I said, no, I haven't got the money. But what she's done now is she's channeling her heartbreak into a mission. She's warning other lonely hearts about these online con artists. And she said this, and I thought these are very wise words. It ain't just Gary they're impersonating. There's a whole army of fake Thom Joneses and Michael Barrymores out there as well.

CAROLE THERIAULT. That's a nightmare movie. Can you picture that?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Can you imagine? Well, I've seen World War Z with all the zombies invading. Can you imagine an army of Thom Jones?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Have you ever been targeted in a romance scam? Do you think you've ever been targeted?

GRAHAM CLULEY. You know what? I have been told just this week that there is someone on Facebook claiming to be Graham Cluley Hacking Services who will break into social media accounts for you.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Bury the headline.

GRAHAM CLULEY. They've got an AI-generated image. Doesn't look anything like me. It looks very handsome.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Does it look like Leonardo DiCaprio?

GRAHAM CLULEY. It looked more like Leonardo DiCaprio when he was about 23 than me. But yeah, so maybe, but I don't know if that then turns to romance. Who knows? If anyone is having a romance with me, let me know. I'd be very interested. Carole, what's your story this week?

CAROLE THERIAULT. All right, I'm going to start with a chap called William Brock. Now you don't know William Brock. He's an 81-year-old. And let me set the scene. This is 11 AM on a Monday morning, late last month. Okay, and William is chilling at home, right, in his South Charleston town in Ohio. When suddenly, dun dun duh, the phone rings.

GRAHAM CLULEY. That's a strange ringtone, can I say? Normally they go brrr rather than dun dun duh.

CAROLE THERIAULT. It was my scary music because this is scary when the phone rings because it seems that William Brock has been receiving not so nice calls during the last few weeks.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh no.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Threatening calls targeting him and his family and demanding cash. So as the phone trills, he's kind of worried that this is yet another one of those calls. So, you know, he gets up and wanders over to the phone and he answers, and he knows he was right to be worried because it's yet another threatening extortion call, right?

So he's irate, right? And he must have nearly jumped out of his skin when a few minutes later there's a knock at the door.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay, that would be scary. This is late tonight, you said?

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, no, 11 AM. 11 AM on a Monday morning.

GRAHAM CLULEY. To be honest, I think when I get to that age, I'll be scared of anyone knocking on my door anytime, day or night.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Right. Even the Amazon guy. We know how you feel about them.

GRAHAM CLULEY. If Amazon did knock on my door, that'd be great.

CAROLE THERIAULT. So our buddy here, William Brock, he opens the door and finds 61-year-old Lolita Toland Hall standing there. And she says, hey, I'm here to pick up a package.

Well, Brock is having none of this, right? Because he's just talked to the scammers, and what does he do? What does he do? He whips out a gun. Okay, he whips out a gun that he's had in his belt cowboy-style, demanding that she identify herself and who she works for. And she tells him, he doesn't believe her, so he demands that she identify the scammers that she's in cahoots with.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So hey, let me tell you.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, yep.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So he's been getting calls for weeks from scammers. Yeah, who've been making threats to him in some way, asking for money or something. Otherwise they're going to come around, duff him up, or do something unpleasant.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I have no idea.

GRAHAM CLULEY. We don't know. We don't know.

CAROLE THERIAULT. We don't know.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And then Lolita turns up on his doorstep, and so he whips out his pistol.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, because she's there, I'm here to pick up a package, and he's just been told, you know, he's had an extortion call, so he thinks it's the scammers, right? It's the scammers showing up.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So gaining access to his house. In order to top him. All right.

CAROLE THERIAULT. So he takes his gun out because, you know, no one gets the best of William Brock. Right?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Right.

CAROLE THERIAULT. He goes, "Who are you?" And so she says, "And who do you work for?" And, you know, "Identify the scammers that you're in cahoots with." But she stammers and starts backing away, right?

Because she probably didn't expect him to be armed. And he doesn't want her to leave. You know, she's the proof that he's been getting these calls. So he snatches her phone. Takes her phone away, and she's backing away. She's backing away. He tells her to stay put, but she's almost at her car now, so he has no choice. He has no choice.

GRAHAM CLULEY. He doesn't shoot, does he?

CAROLE THERIAULT. He shoots her.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Her, not the car.

CAROLE THERIAULT. He shoots her. She, Toland Hall, starts screaming for help, and they start wrestling. Brock, okay, William Brock, now raging, shoots her a second and a third time. A fourth time.

GRAHAM CLULEY. What?

CAROLE THERIAULT. He nails each shot. And now with his assailant neutralized, he calls 911 to report the incident.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And says there's a mad person shooting, shooting a delivery person.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, Graham, look, we all know, listeners and I all know that you have a bit of a short fuse. You've been coming up with nitpicks a lot more. And I need to know that whether or not in your opinion, do you think Brock's response was excessive.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, I tend to take the viewpoint that there's very few occasions when it's all right to shoot somebody as a general rule. I've actually taken that so far that, listeners, I don't have a gun.

CAROLE THERIAULT. It wouldn't be legal for you to have a gun.

GRAHAM CLULEY. If I wanted to shoot someone, I'd have to somehow get a gun first of all. So, yeah, so that's going to prevent me.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, that wasn't my question.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, okay.

CAROLE THERIAULT. It was like, do you think his response was excessive?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes, I do. You do?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I don't think— if your mystery attacker is jumping into their car to go away and hasn't taken anything from you, then shooting them in response seems a little bit—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Four times on top of that.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Four times. Yeah. Although he did call 911 afterwards, which is very thoughtful of him.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Afterwards. Yep.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yep. Well, you know, it would have interrupted the shooting, I suppose, if he'd done it. Yeah. I mean, his hands were full.

CAROLE THERIAULT. He was holding her phone in one hand, right? He had a gun in the other. How is he gonna call? Well, I'm glad to hear you say that you think it was a little bit excessive, because it turns out that the company that 61-year-old Lolita Toland Hall works for was Uber, as she told him. Oh, the scammers had also targeted her by ordering a simple parcel pickup at this address.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, so she wasn't an Uber driver picking him up to take him to the bad guys?

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, she was there to pick up the money parcel.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, I see.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Right? So they're saying, "We're going to hurt you or give us some cash."

GRAHAM CLULEY. Bing bong!

CAROLE THERIAULT. "Hi, here to pick up a parcel. I work at Uber."

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh. Wow. Poor Lolita.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, very poor Lolita, because she died in surgery from the fatal gun wounds.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, nice cheery story, Carole. Thanks for choosing this one, cheapest.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, current reports say that the sheriff's office is still investigating the scam calls to Brock and the package delivery order through the Uber app. So basically, part-time Uber driver pops around to pick up the package and, yeah.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So Brock is in trouble now because it seems to me he's murdered somebody, right?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, yeah, let me show you this link while you— so you can see. So some of this was caught on camera.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh yes, please share that link. Jeepers.

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, no, no.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So you can—

CAROLE THERIAULT. There's a few stills in the article I've put in there for you in the show notes. But it was caught on camera on Toland Hall's dash camera footage, right? So this has just been released by the sheriff's office.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh my goodness. So this is a shot through the windscreen of the two of them. Yeah, he's holding his gun, right?

CAROLE THERIAULT. She's backing up, trying to get into her car.

GRAHAM CLULEY. He's very close to her, and he's got a gun pointed at her. She seems to be saying, "What the hell's going on? What the hell's wrong with you, man?"

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yep. And the two move away from view of the camera, and then multiple shots spaced out from each other can be heard, followed by Hall screaming for help.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh my goodness.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And get this, Brock can be heard telling Toland Hall, "I'll shoot the other leg."

GRAHAM CLULEY. Hmm. So, well, I feel terribly sorry for this woman and her family.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Jesus, right? Totally.

GRAHAM CLULEY. This old guy as well who did the shooting, you can't help but feel a bit of sympathy for him as well because obviously he was in quite a state to end up this way. And we think there are scammers who presumably have not yet been identified.

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, the cops are still working on all that. But we have learned that Brock has been charged with murder. And the reasons being that he did not call 911 soon enough and because there was no active threat presented by Miss Hall at any time during the encounter. Right. She wasn't sitting there being aggressive. So my question is, do you think if they end up catching the scammers that did this?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Do you think they could be charged with some murder charge?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, I'm not a lawyer, Kroll. I know you think I am.

CAROLE THERIAULT. No. No, I don't even think you're Leonardo DiCaprio, so, you know.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I don't know. I mean, they clearly have some culpability in this thing, right? Well, it's huge.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, I mean, they didn't order anyone to shoot, but yeah.

GRAHAM CLULEY. But then you also have to feel a little bit sorry for the scammers. Because it's they're just trying to do a money scam. They weren't planning to go as far as anyone getting shot or anyone getting hurt.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I bet they're bricking it right now. So the moral of the story, Graham, if we have any morals here, is I think I'd say report scams to the cops, right?

So yes, if he had numerous calls to cops and had a written, kept data, you know, a sheet even of paper of I received a call at this time, da da da da. So that they can, you know, so there's a log.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, that's one moral. I'd also suggest maybe don't own a gun.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Might be a good one as well to avoid getting yourself in this kind of pickle.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, I think I share the opinion that guns often make situations much, much worse. Yes.

GRAHAM CLULEY. And obviously we're liberal European types, and so that's why we feel that, but yeah.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, bit posh.

GRAHAM CLULEY. I guess. Wow.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Don't shoot the Uber driver.

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And thanks to them for supporting the show. And welcome back. And you join us at our favorite part of the show, the part of the show that we to call Pick of the Week.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Pick of the Week.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Pick of the Week. Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they.

Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app. Whatever they. It doesn't have to be security related necessarily.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Better not be.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, my Pick of the Week this week is not security related. Good. I've been trying to get a bit fitter and stay healthy so I can make episodes of this podcast for many, many years to come.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Oh, that's a great reason to stay fit.

GRAHAM CLULEY. That's the only reason I stay alive.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I fancy a bit of exercise, you know, I'd to dabble.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, well, you are very, very fit, Carole.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Thanks, man.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Not in that way, but you know what I mean. And so I've joined a gym recently. So, you know, do a bit of treadmill and do a bit of swimming, you know, play badminton and things.

CAROLE THERIAULT. What, instead of getting your own pool?

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yeah, exactly. Instead of going around the paddling pool. And so one of the things I did, I did this on, I think it was Sunday morning, got up bright and early, and I went to my Pick of the Week, which is BoxFit.

CAROLE THERIAULT. BoxFit.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh my God. Now, BoxFit, I thought maybe it is something where you get exercise by jumping up and down on Amazon cardboard boxes. You know, because you've got to tear them apart, break them down in order to get them into the recycling. No, BoxFit is to do with boxing.

CAROLE THERIAULT. That's what I—

GRAHAM CLULEY. Have you ever done this, Carole?

CAROLE THERIAULT. No, I think I know a few people that have, but no, I'm not, I don't really like gyms at all. I have no interest in gyms. Yeah.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, very wise. Well, you've got your swimming pool at home and the underground.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I have a yoga mat, dude.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Exactly. And all that sort of thing. So BoxFit is high-intensity cardio workout using gloves and pads. So I went along to this thing.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Surely this is heart attack inducing for someone of your age.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Absolutely. Absolutely.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Is this really a nitpick of the week?

GRAHAM CLULEY. There was— no, this isn't a nitpick. This is a pick of the week because it was actually quite fun. It was exhausting. I have no coordination whatsoever. I have no control over the left-hand side of my body.

You know, I don't really know why I have a left arm at all other than balance. I don't seem to do anything with it. So, you know, it's just flopping around.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I'm just imagining like—

GRAHAM CLULEY. It's just flopping around. And then they're saying, well, punch with your left arm. And it's like, seriously? Seriously? You want me to move this thing?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Are you kidding me?

GRAHAM CLULEY. What? I'm just not very skilled with my left arm and my left leg. No, I'm not. I don't know why. So it's all like you have gloves, you have your big boxing gloves and you're partnered up with someone else and there's like punch, punch and uppercut and I said, "Oh my God. Oh my God. It is knackering."

But we're not actually punching each other in the face yet. But I was with this one guy who was walloping. He was so strong. It was like bloody hell. And afterwards I said, "Oh, you must have been coming." He said, "No, it's my first time." And I thought, "Oh dear, I'm a bit weedy in comparison."

And it was quite the workout. But if you want to improve your agility, strength, and overall fitness, I found it quite fun. And it's quite social as well, because we were basically—

CAROLE THERIAULT. You're getting hit in the face with strangers. So fun. This is what Graham thinks is fun, you know?

GRAHAM CLULEY. We were laughing. We weren't hitting each other anywhere vulnerable. We're likely to cause any pain.

CAROLE THERIAULT. You didn't get punched in the nuts, so therefore it was really fun.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Exactly. Exactly. Normally I'd have to pay more for that kind of treatment. Oh my God. Anyway, so BoxFit is my pick of the week. Carole, what's your pick of the week?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, so I have a family member who is rather enchanted by creative souls that dream up unique gizmos that can make life a little better.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Oh, right.

CAROLE THERIAULT. So this family member tends to trawl crowdfunding sites looking for brilliant ideas, and if this person finds one, boom, they'll buy it and check out.

GRAHAM CLULEY. This is a family member. When you say a member of your family, you mean it's definitely not you? Is that what you're saying?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Well, let me carry on. You just tell me at the end if you think this was me. Now, some of these gizmos that this family member has purchased have not worked out so well.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I remember one was this kind of weird headgear apparatus that would you would wear in a plane to hold your head up. So you have a strap around your forehead and a strap around your chin to hold your head up whilst you were sitting there with your eyes closed, drooling and snoring.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Because there's that horrible thing, isn't there, when your head's lolling around? When you fall asleep, you wake up, and your neck hurts and all that. So that sounds like a sensible invention.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Right, except that the straps go behind the headrest across the TV screen of the person behind you.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Not so popular.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Not so popular. Okay, now this one — okay, first caveat, this has just arrived and has not been tested yet, but I think once you hear about it, you'll have an opinion.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay, definitely.

CAROLE THERIAULT. It is called the Washi Pocket-Sized Solar Heating Washing Machine.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So a pocket-sized washing machine?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, let me — I'm going to give you a link, Graham, to check this out while we're reacting here.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay, we'll put it in the show notes.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yeah, of course we will. Okay, so listeners, I want you to imagine a large whoopee cushion, okay, with a kind of watertight opening that you can kind of unscrew and get inside the whoopee cushion. And in this, you shove your dirty clothes inside the whoopee cushion, you add water and detergent, and then you shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay.

CAROLE THERIAULT. You can leave it in the sun, right? So it gets warm. So I think that's why it's called solar heated.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Right, yeah.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And then you shake, shake, shake. There's a video on the link — if you guys go visit this, the creator says there's nothing worse than when you're traveling and you realize that you smell. You know, you must know what that means, Graham, because you travel a lot.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Normally I use a thing called a shower, if that's the case.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Okay, okay. I'm going to give you a situation — I want to know what you do. Okay, imagine you're at a hotel for an event.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yes.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And your butt sneaks out a little toot, but actually it turns out to be a little poop, okay? But you're about to go on stage.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Yep, that is a frequent—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Do you pull out the Washi and, you know, get yourself all sort of shaky, shaky, shake? Do you go commando? Do you not worry about it because no one's getting close enough? What do you do now? Sticky Pickles is coming back soon, ladies and gentlemen.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So I've soiled myself, have I? I've soiled my trousers.

CAROLE THERIAULT. You only have one pair — you weren't going to stay there. You know, you only have one pair of pants.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Right.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Your pants are soiled.

GRAHAM CLULEY. So these American pants or British pants? Sorry, is it underpants, British pants?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Yes, yes.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Okay.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Unless you've had a very big accident.

GRAHAM CLULEY. If it's — yeah, well, okay, I'm just trying to understand exactly what the parameters are here. So if it is — if I'm just about to go on stage, I can't — this isn't a situation that has arisen, can I just stress that right now?

CAROLE THERIAULT. It does occur to me that your pants would be wet, right, because it doesn't dry them.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Right. So is it going to be better going out with a great big damp stain coming through my trousers rather than an invisible poop contained within my underpants? I think you've answered your own question there.

CAROLE THERIAULT. I don't want to actually know the answer. Okay, now I must repeat, I have no idea if this is any good, but as this family member likes to celebrate these innovations and creativity, and I thought this was a little bit charming as an idea. I mean, I don't know if you were on a cruise or if you were out camping.

GRAHAM CLULEY. But there are cleaning facilities on cruises, hotels and things?

CAROLE THERIAULT. They cost a lot of money. I've had stuff cleaned at hotels before.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, how much does this gadget cost?

CAROLE THERIAULT. That is a very good question. Let's find out. $99.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Well, that seems rather expensive. Oh, that's for three of them. Why would you need three of them? How much poo cleaning are you going to do?

CAROLE THERIAULT. Wow, that's me first.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Excellent, excellent. Good, good quality. And listeners, if any of you try out the Washi—

CAROLE THERIAULT. Don't blame me. Never leave home without it.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Because you never know when you might need it in an emergency.

CAROLE THERIAULT. Keys, check. Phone, check. Wallet, check. Pocket-sized solar-heated washing machine.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Shit. And that just about wraps up the show for this week. You can follow us on Twitter @SmashingSecurity, no G. Twitter allows to have a G. Don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode, follow Smashing Security in your favorite podcast apps such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Pocket Casts.

CAROLE THERIAULT. And all the thanks in the world to our episode sponsors, Vanta, Kolide, and KiteWorks. And of course, to our wonderful Patreon community. It's thanks to them all that this show is free. For episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest list and the entire back catalog of more than 367 episodes, check out smashingsecurity.com.

GRAHAM CLULEY. Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye, bye.

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