In my early 20s, people used to say, you know, you look a bit like Leonardo DiCaprio.

Shut up. Who said that? People that could see? People that weren't blind?

People with eyes used

People with eyes.

It wasn't the woman from the Lionel Richie Hello video.

But they have very small eyes and maybe they were looking directly into the sun.

Smashing Security. Episode 368: Gary Barlow and a Scam Turns Deadly with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley.

to say, yeah.

Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security Episode 368. My name's Graham Cluley.

And I'm Carole Theriault.

And Carole, thank you for joining us. You are far overseas on a secret mission at the moment, aren't you?

I am very much so. So that means we should just get going so I can go back to doing my secret mission stuff.

Fair enough.

But before we kick off, let's thank this week's wonderful sponsors, Collide, KiteWorks, and Vanta. It's their support that helps us give you this show for free. Now, coming up on today's show, Graham, what do you got?

I'm going to be saying, take that, to romance scammers.

And I'm going to head to Ohio and see what can go really wrong when... All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.

Now, chums, chums, specifically you, Carole, because you're the only person who can answer this question, who's on the show today. Do you have a celebrity lookalike?

No, but I used to be told fairly often that I looked, I can't remember, Linda Carter, the Wonder Woman girl.

Wonder Woman. That's right. Well done. Because I have asked you this question before, 4 years ago, when we had Garry Kasparov on the show, and you said Wonder Woman, Lynda Carter. So—

I'm not a liar.

You're not a liar. We ran your picture through an app which suggested Courteney Cox was your celebrity lookalike.

Oh, I forgot that.

I was compared to Henry Kissinger or Larry the Cable Guy.

One of them is much closer than the other. That's all I'm going to say.

But in my youth, I remember in my early 20s, there are two famous people who people used to say, you know, you look a bit like, you look a bit like Leonardo DiCaprio.

Shut up.

People used to say that.

People that could see? People that weren't blind?

People, people with eyes used to say, yeah.

People with eyes.

It wasn't the woman from the Lionel Richie Hello video who said I look like.

But they have very small eyes and maybe they were looking directly into the sun.

Leonardo DiCaprio, they used to say. And the other person who used to say was British singer Gary Barlow.

Oh, he's the Take That guy, isn't he?

He's the Take That guy. Now, some listeners in America may not know who Gary Barlow is.

Yes, they do.

No, you'd be surprised. I've done my research, Carole. Take That, never as popular over there as they were in the UK and the rest of the world. Because over here, Gary Barlow and Take That are really famous. Now, some Americans, they've heard of that song Back for Good, but that's really about it. They may not know.

He did loads of shows though, like the X Factor things, things like that.

UK versions of Ikea. UK versions. He's not Paula Abdul. Oh, right. He's not Simon Cowell. He didn't go over to America to do them. No. So, for those who aren't in the know, he's like a Poundland Elton John. He's a—

Oh, that's cruel.

No, because he—

He's a really talented guy.

He is a really talented guy, but he's not Elton John, is he? But he's a songwriter. He plays the piano. He's a human wind machine. He was a frontman of this boy band Take That for years and years. I think he still is, which has had number one records around the world, but not really very much in America. He's popular and successful. He's done all right for himself.

Hey, but the two of you out there that don't know about Gary Barlow, hope you're enjoying this.

Well, now everyone knows what I look like. Leonardo DiCaprio mixed with Gary Barlow.

That's exactly what you look like.

And we all knew Gary Barlow's had a happy private life, three kids, been married to one of his backing dancers for nearly 25 years. And it seemed like everything was tickety-boo, but no, no, no. It turns out that Gary Barlow might be a philanderer. Because there is a 62-year-old pizza-slinging granny from Essex.

Okay.

Her name is Janet Smith. She works in a pizza parlour.

Right.

And she says that she got into a saucy romantic conversation with Gary Barlow, Gazza, Gazza Bazza. I started talking to this chap who I thought was Gary Barlow, first of all, because I went on Facebook and his name come up, so I added him. Why wouldn't you?

You know, I'm getting on in years and, you know, I'd like to think I could turn a few heads.

Well, she says that she added Gary as a friend on Facebook.

No, please don't do that.

I was going through my likes and comments, he said, and my heart chose you and your profile really attracted me. And Gary replied to her. He said— So I decided to get this private account just to text my fan. Because my manager has access to my official account, hope you can keep this a secret between the two of us. This was the initial, "Hi, how are you?" from Gary Barlow himself to the granny who works in the pizza parlour in Colchester, Essex.

So, okay, we all know that I don't manage a social profile with any skill. Or, right? We all know that. Correct. Okay.

Very much so.

I wonder if this is really the best way to open up a conversation with someone. You know, it just seems a bit strong because you'd have to have a lot of faith in your profile being pretty awesome to capture the likes of Gazza Bazza.

You know, I, like I said, there are those of us who've been hit by the beauty stick. As we fell out of the tree and, you know, have fallen—

Hit really hard.

Gorgeous. Some of us are just put in this position where we can do this. And so this Barlow chap bombarded Granny Janet with compliments, telling her that he had split up from his wife and that he had a secret. He had a secret that he wanted to share with Janet. Janet and Gary Barlow started texting every day, sometimes from 9 o'clock in the morning till 3 o'clock in the morning, which is obviously— yes, yes. I don't know when she was making pizzas.

She's making pizzas, sleeping for a few hours. She's like, I haven't showered in weeks. Gazza.

But I carried on, and he was saying that I've got rehearsals now, I'll text you later. I believe in God, my marriage is broke up. Gazza Bazza. He said, hey, he said, I I've got a lot of music. I'm a very busy person. And then he would come back on and all I kept questioning is, I'm sure you're not Gary Barlow. So in a long string of messages, Gary Barlow was telling her how he loved her and praised her dancing videos because she'd posted a few videos up on Facebook of her doing little jigs around the place, maybe to some of their songs. was going through my likes and comments. Could it be Magic? And Shine, that was one of theirs, wasn't it? I don't know how Gary pronounces that.

I don't know. I don't really know Take That.

You don't know Take That? Okay. All right. But every now and then, Gary would say, oh, I've got to dash off because he had an important meeting or to be practising for a concert. And Janet told the Daily Mail, who she was recounting this story to, she said to them, the words were really posh. He said, I'm in a meeting now. And I'm practising for a concert. Now, I don't know what's posh about those words, but she says that was posh talk.

Well, it depends where Janet lives and who her neighbours are. But maybe she lives in an area where people— Don't have meetings or don't practise for concerts, perhaps. Right. I thought you read my profile, Gazza.

I hope you're not posing as a fan. He said, I have to be careful because I've been hurt several times from people out there who are actually journalists, pretend to be fans and end up faking stories about me. And Janet assured him that she was a genuine fan of his.

Yeah, 100% not a journalist. I'll keep this between us, Gazza. Love you too.

So last month in March, Janet got really excited about her budding new romance and she couldn't resist any longer. And so she pressed the button to make an audio call to Gary late one night.

You meant video call, didn't you?

No, an audio call. It was an audio call that she tried. Gary didn't answer.

Oh, right, because they've only been texting so far.

They've only been texting so far.

Okay, with you. I'm feeling there's a little pink flag now, just a little bit of a tinge of red, maybe a tinge of red. Blushing.

So Janet has also got a little bit of a blush about her. She started to get suspicious and she realized the man she was speaking to couldn't be the real Gary Barlow. As she told the newspaper, "Gary Barlow would not talk to someone like me. He's too famous," she said. And Gary's message back: Don't be so fast, woman. With time, you'll know me very well. I told you about calling me. "I just thought, this isn't Gary Barlow." So she was actually smart, right? She's a smart woman, Janet. My management are monitoring me, so just text me. Instead. First of all, I did think it might have been him.

She saw the red flag, the blushy flag. Yep.

She said, "You're not the real one." And he kept on replying. He said, 'You're lovely, you're kind, but yes, I am Gary Barlow.' And eventually Janet managed to persuade this person who was posing as Gary Barlow to reveal the truth. There was a picture, but he didn't have many friends on there. But he started saying things, and I kept saying to him, are you Gary Barlow? Are you Gary Barlow? He said, yes, I am, and if you think I'm not, stop texting. He was texting me to about 3 in the morning, and I said to him, 'I want the truth now. I don't think you're Gary Barlow.' And he kept saying, 'I am.' I said— he said, 'Can I have your WhatsApp number?' So I said, 'You can have my WhatsApp number if you tell me who you are,' because he kept saying he had a secret, but he wouldn't tell me the secret because he had to learn to trust me. And the secret was he wasn't Gary Barlow. He was a chap based in Nigeria who he said was a big fan, an admirer of Gary Barlow, and liked singing and liked his songs and had fallen in love with Janet and wanted to help out his family and just needed some money to get some food in Nigeria.

Jesus.

So I can see his point, but it's wrong what he's done because he's intimidated Gary Barlow. And how many people are going to be vulnerable? A bit like me. I'm very, very vulnerable and I haven't sent him money, but I have felt guilty because he's poor. He asked me to download something. What would cost for a card download? They tell me how much it'd be so I can go and see him. And I can go and see his concerts. But I didn't do it. I said, no, I haven't got the money. But what she's done now is she's channeling her heartbreak into a mission. She's warning other lonely hearts about these online con artists. And she said this, and I thought these are very wise words. It ain't just Gary they're impersonating. There's a whole army of fake Thom Joneses and Michael Barrymores out there as well.

That's a nightmare movie. Can you picture that?

Can you imagine? Well, I've seen World War Z with all the zombies invading. Can you imagine an army of Thom Jones?

Have you ever been targeted in a romance scam? Do you think you've ever been targeted?

You know what? I have been told just this week that there is someone on Facebook claiming to be Graham Cluley Hacking Services who will break into social media accounts for you.

Bury the headline.

They've got an AI-generated image. Doesn't look anything like me. It looks very handsome.

Does it look like Leonardo DiCaprio?

It looked more like Leonardo DiCaprio when he was about 23 than me. But yeah, so maybe, but I don't know if that then turns to romance. Who knows? If anyone is having a romance with me, let me know. I'd be very interested. Carole, what's your story this week?

All right, I'm going to start with a chap called William Brock. Now you don't know William Brock. He's an 81-year-old. And let me set the scene. This is 11 AM on a Monday morning, late last month. Okay, and William is chilling at home, right, in his South Charleston town in Ohio. When suddenly, dun dun duh, the phone rings.

That's a strange ringtone, can I say? Normally they go brrr rather than dun dun duh.

It was my scary music because this is scary when the phone rings because it seems that William Brock has been receiving not so nice calls during the last few weeks.

Oh no.

Threatening calls targeting him and his family and demanding cash. So as the phone trills, he's kind of worried that this is yet another one of those calls. So, you know, he gets up and wanders over to the phone and he answers, and he knows he was right to be worried because it's yet another threatening extortion call, right? So he's irate, right? And he must have nearly jumped out of his skin when a few minutes later there's a knock at the door.

Okay, that would be scary. This is late tonight, you said?

No, no, 11 AM. 11 AM on a Monday morning.

To be honest, I think when I get to that age, I'll be scared of anyone knocking on my door anytime, day or night.

Right. Even the Amazon guy. We know how you feel about them.

If Amazon did knock on my door, that'd be great.

So our buddy here, William Brock, he opens the door and finds 61-year-old Lolita Toland Hall standing there. And she says, hey, I'm here to pick up a package. Well, Brock is having none of this, right? Because he's just talked to the scammers, and what does he do? What does he do? He whips out a gun. Okay, he whips out a gun that he's had in his belt cowboy-style, demanding that she identify herself and who she works for. And she tells him, he doesn't believe her, so he demands that she identify the scammers that she's in cahoots with.

So hey, let me tell you.

Yeah, yep.

So he's been getting calls for weeks from scammers. Yeah, who've been making threats to him in some way, asking for money or something. Otherwise they're going to come around, duff him up, or do something unpleasant.

I have no idea.

We don't know.

We don't know.

And then Lolita turns up on his doorstep, and so he whips out his pistol.

Well, because she's there, I'm here to pick up a package, and he's just been told, you know, he's had an extortion call, so he thinks it's the scammers, right? It's the scammers showing up.

We don't know. So gaining access to his house. In order to top him. All right.

So he takes his gun out because, you know, no one gets the best of William Brock. Right?

Right.

He goes, "Who are you?" And so she says, "And who do you work for?" And, you know, "Identify the scammers that you're in cahoots with." But she stammers and starts backing away, right? Because she probably didn't expect him to be armed. And he doesn't want her to leave. You know, she's the proof that he's been getting these calls. So he snatches her phone. Takes her phone away, and she's backing away. She's backing away. He tells her to stay put, but she's almost at her car now, so he has no choice. He has no choice.

He doesn't shoot, does he?

He shoots her.

Her, not the car.

He shoots her. She, Toland Hall, starts screaming for help, and they start wrestling. Brock, okay, William Brock, now raging, shoots her a second and a third time. A fourth time.

What?

He nails each shot. And now with his assailant neutralized, he calls 911 to report the incident.

And says there's a mad person shooting, shooting a delivery person.

Well, Graham, look, we all know, listeners and I all know that you have a bit of a short fuse. You've been coming up with nitpicks a lot more. And I need to know that whether or not in your opinion, do you think Brock's response was excessive.

Well, I tend to take the viewpoint that there's very few occasions when it's all right to shoot somebody as a general rule. I've actually taken that so far that, listeners, I don't have a gun.

It wouldn't be legal for you to have a gun.

If I wanted to shoot someone, I'd have to somehow get a gun first of all. So, yeah, so that's going to prevent me.

Four times on top of that. Well, that wasn't my question.

Oh, okay.

It was like, do you think his response was excessive?

Four times. Yeah. Yes, I do. You do?

Okay.

I don't think— if your mystery attacker is jumping into their Although he did call 911 afterwards, which is very thoughtful of him. car to go away and hasn't taken anything from you, then

Afterwards. Yep.

Yep. Well, you know, it would have interrupted the shooting, I suppose, if he'd done it. Yeah. I mean, his hands were full.

He was holding her phone in one hand, right? He had a gun in the other.

shooting them in response seems a little bit—

How is he gonna call? Well, I'm glad to hear you say that you think it was a little bit excessive, because it turns out that the company that 61-year-old Lolita Toland Hall works for was Uber, as she told him. Oh, the scammers had also targeted her by ordering a simple parcel pickup at this address.

Oh, so she wasn't an Uber driver picking him up to take him to the bad guys?

No, she was there to pick up the money parcel.

Oh, I see.

Right? So they're saying, "We're going to hurt you or give us some cash."

Bing bong!

"Hi, here to pick up a parcel. I work at Uber."

Oh. Wow. Poor Lolita.

Well, very poor Lolita, because she died in surgery from the fatal gun wounds.

Oh, nice cheery story, Carole. Thanks for choosing this one, cheapest.

Well, current reports say that the sheriff's office is still investigating the scam calls to Brock and the package delivery order through the Uber app. So basically, part-time Uber driver pops around to pick up the package and, yeah.

So Brock is in trouble now because it seems to me he's murdered somebody, right?

Well, yeah, let me show you this link while you— so you can see. So some of this was caught on camera.

Oh yes, please share that link. Jeepers.

No, no, no.

So you can—

There's a few stills in the article I've put in there for you in the show notes. But it was caught on camera on Toland Hall's dash camera footage, right? So this has just been released by the sheriff's office.

Oh my goodness. So this is a shot through the windscreen of the two of them. Yeah, he's holding his gun, right?

She's backing up, trying to get into her car.

He's very close to her, and he's got a gun pointed at her. She seems to be saying, "What the hell's going on? What the hell's wrong with you, man?"

Yep. And the two move away from view of the camera, and then multiple shots spaced out from each other can be heard, followed by Hall screaming for help.

Oh my goodness.

And get this, Brock can be heard telling Toland Hall, "I'll shoot the other leg."

Hmm. So, well, I feel terribly sorry for this woman and her family.

Jesus, right? Totally.

This old guy as well who did the shooting, you can't help but feel a bit of sympathy for him as well because obviously he was in quite a state to end up this way. And we think there are scammers who presumably have not yet been identified.

No, the cops are still working on all that. But we have learned that Brock has been charged with murder. And the reasons being that he did not call 911 soon enough and because there was no active threat presented by Miss Hall at any time during the encounter. Right. She wasn't sitting there being aggressive. So my question is, do you think if they end up catching the scammers that did this?

Yeah.

Do you think they could be charged with some murder charge?

Well, I'm not a lawyer, Kroll. I know you think I am.

No. No, I don't even think you're Leonardo DiCaprio, so, you know.

I don't know. I mean, they clearly have some culpability in this thing, right? Well, it's huge.

Yeah, I mean, they didn't order anyone to shoot, but yeah.

But then you also have to feel a little bit sorry for the scammers. Because it's they're just trying to do a money scam. They weren't planning to go as far as anyone getting shot or anyone getting hurt.

I bet they're bricking it right now. So the moral of the story, Graham, if we have any morals here, is I think I'd say report scams to the cops, right? So yes, if he had numerous calls to cops and had a written, kept data, you know, a sheet even of paper of I received a call at this time, da da da da. So that they can, you know, so there's a log.

Well, that's one moral. I'd also suggest maybe don't own a gun.

Yeah.

Might be a good one as well to avoid getting yourself in this kind of pickle.

Yeah, I think I share the opinion that guns often make situations much, much worse. Yes.

And obviously we're liberal European types, and so that's why we feel that, but yeah.

Yeah, bit posh.

I guess. Wow.

Don't shoot the Uber driver.

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You can leave it in the sun, right?

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So it gets warm. So I think that's why it's called solar heated.

Pick of the Week.

Pick of the Week. Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they. Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app. Whatever they. It doesn't have to be security related necessarily.

Better not be.

Well, my Pick of the Week this week is not security related. Good. I've been trying to get a bit fitter and stay healthy so I can make episodes of this podcast for many, many years to come.

Oh, that's a great reason to stay fit.

That's the only reason I stay alive.

I fancy a bit of exercise, you know, I'd to dabble.

Yeah, well, you are very, very fit, Carole.

Thanks, man.

Not in that way, but you know what I mean. And so I've joined a gym recently. So, you know, do a bit of treadmill and do a bit of swimming, you know, play badminton and things.

What, instead of getting your own pool?

Yeah, exactly. Instead of going around the paddling pool. And so one of the things I did, I did this on, I think it was Sunday morning, got up bright and early, and I went to my Pick of the Week, which is BoxFit.

BoxFit.

Oh my God. Now, BoxFit, I thought maybe it is something where you get exercise by jumping up and down on Amazon cardboard boxes. You know, because you've got to tear them apart, break them down in order to get them into the recycling. No, BoxFit is to do with boxing.

That's what I—

Have you ever done this, Carole?

No, I think I know a few people that have, but no, I'm not, I don't really like gyms at all. I have no interest in gyms. Yeah.

Well, very wise. Well, you've got your swimming pool at home and the underground.

I have a yoga mat, dude.

Exactly. And all that sort of thing. So BoxFit is high-intensity cardio workout using gloves and pads. So I went along to this thing.

Surely this is heart attack inducing for someone of your age.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Is this really a nitpick of the week? There was— no, this isn't a nitpick. This is a pick of the week because it was actually quite fun. It was exhausting. I have no coordination whatsoever. I have no control over the left-hand side of my body. I'm just imagining like—

It's just flopping around. And then they're saying, well, punch with your left arm. And it's like, seriously? Seriously? You want me to move this thing?

Are you kidding me? What? I'm just not very skilled with my left arm and my left leg. No, I'm not. I don't know why. So it's all like you have gloves, you have your big boxing gloves and you're partnered up with someone else and there's like punch, punch and uppercut and I said, "Oh my God. Oh my God. It is knackering." You're getting hit in the face with strangers. So fun. This is what Graham thinks is fun, you know?

We were laughing. We weren't hitting each other anywhere vulnerable. We're likely to cause any pain.

You didn't get punched in the nuts, so therefore it was really fun.

Exactly. Exactly. Normally I'd have to pay more for that kind of treatment. Oh my God. Anyway, so BoxFit is my pick of the week. Carole, what's your pick of the week?

Okay, so I have a family member who is rather enchanted by creative souls that dream up unique gizmos that can make life a little better.

Oh, right.

So this family member tends to trawl crowdfunding sites looking for brilliant ideas, and if this person finds one, boom, they'll buy it and check out.

This is a family member. When you say a member of your family, you mean it's definitely not you? Is that what you're saying?

Well, let me carry on. You just tell me at the end if you think this was me. Now, some of these gizmos that this family member has purchased have not worked out so well.

Okay.

I remember one was this kind of weird headgear apparatus that would you would wear in a plane to hold your head up. So you have a strap around your forehead and a strap around your chin to hold your head up whilst you were sitting there with your eyes closed, drooling and snoring.

Because there's that horrible thing, isn't there, when your head's lolling around? When you fall asleep, you wake up, and your neck hurts and all that. So that sounds like a sensible invention.

Right, except that the straps go behind the headrest across the TV screen of the person behind you.

Not so popular.

Not so popular. Okay, now this one — okay, first caveat, this has just arrived and has not been tested yet, but I think once you hear about it, you'll have an opinion.

Okay, definitely.

It is called the Washi Pocket-Sized Solar Heating Washing Machine.

So a pocket-sized washing machine?

Yeah, let me — I'm going to give you a link, Graham, to check this out while we're reacting here.

Okay, we'll put it in the show notes.

Yeah, of course we will. Okay, so listeners, I want you to imagine a large whoopee cushion, okay, with a kind of watertight opening that you can kind of unscrew and get inside the whoopee cushion. And in this, you shove your dirty clothes inside the whoopee cushion, you add water and detergent, and then you shake, shake, shake, shake, shake, shake.

Okay. Right, yeah.

And then you shake, shake, shake. There's a video on the link — if you guys go visit this, the creator says there's nothing worse than when you're traveling and you realize that you smell. You know, you must know what that means, Graham, because you travel a lot.

Normally I use a thing called a shower, if that's the case.

Okay, okay. I'm going to give you a situation — I want to know what you do. Okay, imagine you're at a hotel for an event.

Yes.

And your butt sneaks out a little toot, but actually it turns out to be a little poop, okay? But you're about to go on stage.

Yep, that is a frequent—

Do you pull out the Washi and, you know, get yourself all sort of shaky, shaky, shake? Do you go commando? Do you not worry about it because no one's getting close enough? What do you do now? Sticky Pickles is coming back soon, ladies and gentlemen.

So I've soiled myself, have I? I've soiled my trousers.

You only have one pair — you weren't going to stay there. You know, you only have one pair of pants.

Right.

Your pants are soiled.

So these American pants or British pants? Sorry, is it underpants, British pants?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Unless you've had a very big accident.

If it's — yeah, well, okay, I'm just trying to understand exactly what the parameters are here. So if it is — if I'm just about to go on stage, I can't — this isn't a situation that has arisen, can I just stress that right now?

It does occur to me that your pants would be wet, right, because it doesn't dry them.

Right. So is it going to be better going out with a great big damp stain coming through my trousers rather than an invisible poop contained within my underpants? I think you've answered your own question there.

I don't want to actually know the answer. Okay, now I must repeat, I have no idea if this is any good, but as this family member likes to celebrate these innovations and creativity, and I thought this was a little bit charming as an idea. I mean, I don't know if you were on a cruise or if you were out camping.

But there are cleaning facilities on cruises, hotels and things?

They cost a lot of money. I've had stuff cleaned at hotels before.

Well, how much does this gadget cost?

That is a very good question. Let's find out. $99.

Well, that seems rather expensive. Oh, that's for three of them. Why would you need three of them? How much poo cleaning are you going to do?

Wow, that's me first.

Excellent, excellent. Good, good quality. And listeners, if any of you try out the Washi—

Don't blame me. Never leave home without it.

Because you never know when you might need it in an emergency.

Keys, check. Phone, check. Wallet, check. Pocket-sized solar-heated washing machine.

Shit. And that just about wraps up the show for this week. You can follow us on Twitter @SmashingSecurity, no G. Twitter allows to have a G. Don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode, follow Smashing Security in your favorite podcast apps such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Pocket Casts.

And all the thanks in the world to our episode sponsors, Vanta, Kolide, and KiteWorks. And of course, to our wonderful Patreon community. It's thanks to them all that this show is free. For episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest list and the entire back catalog of more than 367 episodes, check out smashingsecurity.com.

Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye, bye.